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Life-Changing Friendships | Clarence Shuler

Building Relationships / Dr. Gary Chapman
The Truth Network Radio
October 8, 2022 1:00 am

Life-Changing Friendships | Clarence Shuler

Building Relationships / Dr. Gary Chapman

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October 8, 2022 1:00 am

Do you want to help heal the racial divide? Does that seem like too big of a task? On this edition of Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, you’ll hear the story of Clarence and Gary. They met a long time ago and struck up a friendship that has stood the test of time. They believe you heal the divide one relationship at a time. Hear about a life-changing friendship today on Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman.

Featured resource: Life-Changing Cross-Cultural Friendships: How You Can Help Heal Racial Divides, One Relationship at a Time by Dr. Gary Chapman and Clarence Shuler

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Hearing the radio's false share. We are asking you to become a partner as we continue our mission to reach people around the world for Christ. This is Westport VP radio join us to make this global effort possible to learn more about the impact of the radio and partner with us all share thought or all share.or call 888-5767 888-357-3667 and I think the goal is not uniformity or unity in a God brings people of all races together and try to make the one Christ as brothers and sisters we did megamall say something is really important that we don't deny our differences and that we don't in our God-given differences, but embrace welcome to building relations and author of the New York Times best selling I not language it you want to help heal the racial divide in our country friendship. The real-life story of two men and a lifetime cultural relationship.

That's right, Dr. Gary Chapman to Dr. Clarence Schuller met a long time ago, and I've seen the pictures through today talk about their practical and helpful book life changing cross-cultural friendship.

You can help heal racial divide one relationship, find out more about "The 5 Love Languages" .com Gary other than your memoir, I think this is probably her most personal project.

Would you agree with and thought about it, but yeah, I think it probably is because Claire's in our lives have been so close together through the years and we both in this book are revealing our journey and I haven't written much about that through the years, but it's been very very meaningful to me.

Enter Clarence and so yeah it is. It is a personal book living this Dr. Schuller. He is president and CEO of building lasting relationships. He's a counselor, speaker, author of such books is winning the race to unity is racial reconciliation really working. Keeping your wife your best friend in single and free to be me and his wife Brenda live in Colorado Springs. They have three adult daughters. For more information, visit his website Clarence SH UL ER Clarence enter featured resources, life changing cross-cultural friendships.

You can find out more at or Clarence let me welcome you back to Building Relationships hi Gary, thanks. I have me back always fun to be with you. Let's start with the question of the racial divide in the country.

As you study this you look at it from your perspective.

Where are we now in the whole racial situation in our country will Gary some things and improve, but I think that when I met you, it was different. There is intensity there was dislike and resegregation. But I think today it seems, be that this is pure hatred.

This much more intense and is almost personal. You know, people really know each other. I think with the George Florida and my dog reason Brown and Taylor. I've never seen so many black men really afraid in their lives like I have seen today, so that's already sidebar books.

We can do some things improve your race relations in America that I think is more intense than his arrogant before. From my perspective and jump in here and I'm going to do this since you've written.

Code written this book and go back to when you first met them. Gary you first.

Your friendship developed during a time when your community was navigating desegregation what your recollections. Gary Chris those were days of great tension in our city.

Both of us grew up in the same city in North Carolina and the population really was about 50-50 black-and-white, but a lot of tension.

I remember waking up one morning and seeing the National Guard on the street corners outside my apartment where we lived and we had your Carolyn I just moved to the city only a few months earlier and you know there were marches downtown. The cook Ku Klux Klan marching downtown. Clarence sometimes says yes until the Black Panther show that he was it was it was that kind of world you know integration and had been taken place in the schools in the process of all of that. So yeah it was pretty pretty tense and what I meant Clarence that I was I was serving as an associate pastor in a local church and we had just built a new gymnasium and on Tuesday nights I was at work with young people. So every Tuesday night we would have 100 or so the kids there, and all of them white because the church was basically white church and or Clarence and his friend showed up one night and walked in unit two black faces in the midst of 100 other white faces and I noticed that some of my adult workers, looked at million and pointed as if to say, do you see that and I got a raise my hand near the time to say it's okay it's okay and I found out later that a couple of our young people had actually invited one of Clarence's friends to come to to the meeting and he had gotten clearance that come with them. So that's where we first met and Clarence. Maybe you can pick it up from there.

What happened that night.

Well, you know, we usually got there. My family had like a town hall meeting to determine if we get is two black boys could go to a white church because it was still pretty dangerous and so they finally let us go. And once you cross the railroad tracks to get to the church people form bottles and calling us names and was he walked into the building is brand-new.

Jim, my friend saw the girls invite him.

He went to be your talk to them.

I didn't know anybody. I was really his bodyguard because back then as black. She never went to white sitting by yourself something about 100 kids yes out how to find a way out here but I have but then I went to the basketball court and some of the adults were seen to be nervous.

I was there and give me kind of funny looks, and I did not switch her hatred. Maybe just a fear I am not sure there are also some that were friendly armor called dresser Gary and ending Gary camo Tabasco court and reduce himself.

I think, shook my hand and told me his name and that's the way he did. His mannerism made me feel safe and welcomed and so that I stop worried about things once I was there so that is it about 10 years. Then difference in your ages. Clarence yes something like that night Missy yeah is that maybe 14 days of like that but but yeah I will probably most probably 27 now I think about it and you are okay wanting out. 14 yes 13, there you have it sad that you are very much a Gary kind of a you have a position of leadership in the church and Clarence is is just coming there for the first time. His gunfight is laid out as 100 kids. I like that so Clarence just get a circle back then to the what was going on at the time, I'm interested that you said that it was that we have more hatred now than back then when you were afraid to even walk into that church that that astounds me. Well, you know the good thing about the South. We were wise. If you feel like it you knew it unit is no guesswork in places you could go place you couldn't go as unwritten rule that you do not, and a lot of cities in the South seven N. The railroad tracks were division of neighborhoods and so are railroad track divided downtown from the black community and from the white community. And so you know where we went to the church.

I wasn't.

I was nervous. I think about doing anything but yes concern, but today when people actually shooting and doing stuff. I guess you know video that is gotten our attention and learn our pro athletes who spoken out about their concerns. Make sure that has a talk by my parents gave me the talk before we went to the churches of like that but but he sees you more intent. I think a lot of the racism when I was growing up, it's time to make Gary people didn't like each other but it was common ignorance because they didn't know each other. But now with the politics and everything else is just a few more intense and more people taken sides in, and more. You are the enemy -type deal. It is really Hard to articulate, I guess so. I agree with that and and Gary want you, will you jump in there because as social media as a part of that to his well it is because people say things on social media, they would never say if I were in the presence of the person you nice like you can say anything and Nebraska body was things now the Purdue body and so is sometimes a civil war going on on on the Internet assisting with throwing out things and jabs at each other in and sometimes it sent to particular individuals and sometimes is just tips of people of another race or another culture. So yeah, it's a different thing. But I think all of us realize that we we do have racial tensions in this country and I think many Christians are saying to themselves, you know. But what can I do it all seems like such a big thing a big factor in all the things in the theories that are being thrown around that are kind of design really to divide us and the question is what can what can I do as a Christian to help you in the situation and Clarence and I really believe Mrs. what we wrote this book we really believe that if every Christian in this country had at least one really close personal friend of a different race or culture then it would change the climate and everyone of us can do that. It's doable that unit men.

The reality is that when you really think about it really get into what friendship is there not a lot of cross-cultural cross racial friendships. We have a lot of acquaintances didn't know. But the real friendships like Clarence now had through the years. It takes time, takes effort and and it takes intentionality and so we're hoping this is going to stimulate the hearts and minds of Christians to talk about this to know to maybe read the book in small study groups and that sort of thing so that we can all encourage each other and is not just a white issue or black issue Christian sometime in the Christians.

Whatever the race or culture, and so yeah that's kind of where we are and and when I owned that night when Clarence first showed up at the gym that night when it was all over I just said hey guys, we're here every Tuesday night and you guys are always welcome and that was the first step. Clarence took the first step by coming to the second step by inviting him to come back and so they became regular tenders and so that's where our friendship began, we were leaving the thought of it is friendship in those early days he was just being friendly to each other you know and that's where friendship started by being friendly to the other person.

Thanks for joining us today for Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman.

He's the author of the New York Times bestseller "The 5 Love Languages" . Find out more about that online@ you can also here pass program taken online assessment to figure out your love language or see our featured resource today all@ that resizes the book life-changing cross-cultural friendships how you can help heal racial divides one relationship at a time that Claire assures her guest speaker Arthur Pres. and CEO of building lasting relationships. You can find out more about him in our featured resource@ back to something you said before the break, Gary, and it was that Clarence took the first step and then you invited them back. That was a second step. Actually, the step that that instigated this all is somebody invited him somebody of another race invited him so this shows exactly what you're talking about that we can work together to foster these friendships.

Now the time when you Matt, Clarence, you had no idea that you'd had this decades long friendship with him.

Did you know it never crossed my mind that we would have a lifelong friendship, but it was I was simply doing what I believe the Bible teaches.

And that is befriended a people in the Scripture say he would have friends must show himself friendly with this being friendly to them you know and treating them like good luck. We were friends.

And then of course I started responding in coming and we got to know each other in a bit by bit, week by week. Clarence did did things of get worse in your community. At that time and how did you and Gary work through that when all things in my neighborhood did not initially get worse. I mean we were more segregated. I did have some friends asked me about going to the white church and that I think some some parents were concerned about me as a black guy going to church and have my mother adapted me go and so Sal's common issue, but my neighbor per se did not get get worse because I'd had a friendship with Gary that you know of.

They saw him come pick me up sometimes. You know, in the in my neighborhood and how did they responded that this white pastor picking up this African-American young man we need to stand back in his 60s that people of faith were treated differently and how I respect, whether black or white.

So effective is a ministry come to get me yesterday gave him a pass and usually white people came Rene but were collecting bills and so we it wasn't uncommon to see a white person come in our neighborhood but it wasn't common to see us as black people did the same car and goes home with them. I'm interested in in Gary did was everything that he didn't get in the USA after school him about something well to say this material to hell because it's what you talk about, but you honestly, I have such a hunger at the time for the word and this is totally new am going to this forbidden territory via white people in counselor net worlds is I'm starting to live in two worlds of evolving world black robed in white world, but there is one thing Ali Gary tell you I was at school till but we had an education but Gary tells Chris about the first time, you can pick us up and and you explain the house to Clarence's house to pick up him and James another one of his friends and I got out of my car and they were on the porch and I started walking toward the house and said you boys ready to go and his friend James said no boy and I said okay James, I think we need to have a talk and I said that when this is all over because the timeframe we had to leave us if we get there with the meeting tonight less than three of us sit down and I want I want to hear what you're saying man and I will understand. And so we went only to the meeting and that night we had a long discussion afterwards and Clarence and James explained the Mason unite our fathers grown man or call boys white man and we've always been told no lever will let white people call your boy and they saw as a derogatory term and us and then I get it never crossed my mind, Chris, in those days that that word would have a derogatory meaning and once I affirm the Hillman in the unites expressed understanding and said guys let me to share my perspective and I said, you know, if I were picking up two white guys your age I would call them boys said to me, the term, it has to do with age, not with anything else and I understood that you know they they affirm that and so that's the kind of conversations I think you will have an interest in starting friendships with someone of a different race or culture because we perceive things differently and we don't understand the terms and what they might mean to people. But when you begin to spend time together and listening to each other you.

You get the other person's perspective and consequently you're less likely then to put other people down unknowingly by using terms that they have a different meaning in that culture. Clarence what happened to you when you heard Gary listening to what you two had to say what one we were boys, but it was so-so to have an adult young male which is a big deal to and both are really great dads but to have him take time to listen our perspective immediately helps you help my friend and me to really love Gary Petrie is a respect he treat us of dignity. So immediately made us feel equal.

And so we really at I think is really at that time, he began, Lisa Roberts, but we began to really become friends that that's really important. You know he's a grown man to time, we weren't. I doubt I was huge for us and I think that's why begin thought I could trust him. And that's what he saw became nonwhite to me. You know enough physically. I could see was white with realism that he can't really be white and be good because edges that breaks the stereotype SOI some time to process all in my head.

Noise is a 14-year-old 1415-year-old I think what you've just touched on. There is the reason why things are so hard today and it's because people won't listen you will hear something about something that's going on in the culture where there's a difference of opinion between one race and another and immediately you entrench in your and you can't listen, you can't listen to the other person isn't that Gary that the this the start of a good friendship is to be able to say tell me what you'd how you see this differently than I do. I think Chris that is the heart of what builds a relationship.

We have to have ears to hear the other person's perspective. And I've been teaching this for years in marriage that a husband in a conflict situation with his wife need to try to put himself over there and look at the world through her eyes try to understand how she could think what she's thinking and feel what she's feeling and then affirm it.

It's not what he thinks and feels, because he's a he's a different person. And so it works in a marriage in the same race but cross-cultural lines it's so important that when there is something that the person takes in a way that you didn't mean it is to hear them out and and try to understand where they're coming from. You know what what they're feeling why they're feeling it and when you do, you can affirm it.

Whereas before you didn't understand it, now you can say I get it you not see how you would feel that way and then they listen to you the same way it takes it takes this empathetic listening that is trying to understand the other person's perspective and then affirming it that allows her friendship to go forward because otherwise if you don't solve conflicts and work through conflicts. Typically, the relationship stops and often stops you too short to really get into a friendship.

But you could've said look I just met age and I didn't mean anything by it racially. You're too sensitive and what you want a way that's what most relationship a lot of relationships and what they do today.

They just dismiss we get defensive and then didn't shoot back a defense of what we said or what we did and we were defensive we never get to the root of the problem, because we never understand the other person yet and had Gary said that we never got in the car and so TEP is that we are to sense that we never got into the car and the relationship of invented there before got started, let's go to the if you have five you'll see that featured resource. This new book by Dr. Chapman.Schuller life-changing cross-cultural friendships how you can help heal racial divides one relationship at a time, go to five love Clarence, we both acknowledge that making friendships as adults can be challenging and sometimes requires you to step out of your comfort zone. I share the story about two men who had an initial bonding over their minivans and how easily relationship positive relationships can get started. Well the stories is actually what my friends who are mentor RES to be a spiritual dad and he is a white guys 6'4" tall.

These plea office of Lyman college aces.

I love my dad by knees might be my spiritual that we do that so I'm out. I can spiritual dad so he's at the gas station in his minivan. Are they have four children and he sees a black guy filling up his minivan and I was then assisted assisted a black guy says hey nice minivan you get the black guy says well yeah about rugby driving the truck, but I got five key is blown away so the minivans were practical and so he sat rugby drive the truck to and to set commonality in one take the initiative. They talked long enough to where my friend got knew who he was and got his number and asked not for lunch and so after that, they were met at lunch found to both were Christians and now think the meat every week or every two weeks and just have built a relationship and it was just that simple of saying hello to someone making a positive comment and the other guy taken off with it so that's is really easy to do, is not as heart-to-heart as people think it is what you say to people who might be intimidated by that kind of story Michelle. I could never do that is talk to somebody. I don't know what a gas station well if they are Christian, I would just say well you know could be possible.

We should take a risk and speak out, as did Bob also tells us we should tell people by Jesus Christ, so we superb opportunity to share the gospel and I sound about you, but sometimes I'm really nervous but I get that opportunity and I was trying speak and answer. I do understand that then I ask you why you think you so intimidated our do you think maybe you just say hello to someone's different without encounter. Racial connotation to say hey how you doing you think you do that and so when I began to look at it and try to go beyond themselves are. We talk is something about learn to be comfortable being uncomfortable and wet. They were Christians learn how to do that, then great things can happen a member. Another story we tell the book is a couple of ladies. One was white one was black and I kept running into each other. The grocery store each week. Did Kenna pass each other and say hi you know and one day the white lady said to the black lady.

This must be your shopping day. I see you here. Often she so yes this much shopping day and so the white lady.

So how are things going in your life, and she so will it fine except my mother is really really sick so she listened to her. She talked about her mother. She's gone.

Though I will pray for your mother and so the next week she asked how her mother was doing and then she said that maybe the third week. She said you would it be okay if I brought your mother if I visit with your mother bought her some flowers and she said well, sure, sure, sure, sure shares, shocking but in some so she dated 19 when she left the lady told her the next week. She's my mother was shocked that you will white lady would come bring her flowers and pray for her and so they start having conversations at the grocery store week after week, and I don't know several weeks along into that.

She invited her to come to Bible study and at her house that she had with other ladies and so this lady came in she was only black lady there, but eventually she date night.

They all became friends.

60 became a part of the group and so again it was just taken the first step to initiate a conversation. Just a simple student asking a person's name when your new running and we all we all encounter people and it's pretty hard in our country unless you really live in a rural area that's that's a totally segregated not to run into people of a different race or culture.

It says that we tend to ignore each other many times.

Rather than starting a conversation since Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman got my website. Five love you'll see our featured resource as well as many of Dr. Chapman's bucks. He's the New York Times best-selling author of "The 5 Love Languages" got a five love for some of those resources and you can hear podcasts of the program and find more simple ways to strengthen relationships@ featured resource today is the book that I Clarence Schuller and Dr. Gary Chapman, life-changing cross-cultural friendships how you can help heal racial divides one relationship at a time. We have a link that five love five love Gary you talk about friendship, beginning with courtesy and patience what you mean by that. You know Chris, the word courtesy comes from two Greek words one means the mind and the other man's friend. So to be courteous is to be friendly minded that is treat people as you would treat a friend. If you keep that in your heart and mind and this is what I say begins there that I want to be courteous to the people that I encountered today give you an example, if you were driving your car and you pulled into a parking lot and it was packed and you saw an empty space in your driving tour that space.

But you see another car come around the corner in their head for the same space. What we do by nature.

We speed up and get the place. But if the person in the other car was a friend of yours, what would you do.

Chances are, you give them the spot. Well, what if we treat everybody as though they were friend. Is it gives you a mental picture in your mind when you're asked yourself that question I want to treat people as a friend. How would I treat my friend and when you have that attitude. It's the beginning step I think of having cross-cultural friendships is that you're going to treat people as a friend and who knows, maybe they may become your friend down the line in the patient's part I think recognize that friendships are not born overnight in a it was a long time before Clarence and I probably would even fall in terms of that we're friends, you know we we were acquaintances we he came to the meetings we had that time you and then once he became a Christian started meeting with him and having the set in Scriptures with him memorizing scriptures with him and that sort of thing. And that's at that juncture, it was really what we call a mentoring friendship.

You know and and Christians in the lesser.

That's our job leading people to Christ and then mentoring them or discipling them. And so it was a mentoring relationship it but it was a friendship. We talked about different levels of friendship and that's that's one that what that's one kind or one type of friendship is a mentoring friendship and if that juncture, we would call ourselves friends because we spend enough time together, since his heart he sensed my heart but I think friendships are born. Over time, they don't just happen in over a week and now her friends we initiate them, but perhaps over the weekend or anywhere, anytime. But it takes time to grow friendships. That's what struck me Clarence about your friendship with Gary. It's it was so organic it is.

What there was no agenda on either side. You just came to know each other and grew and that friendship and and over this over the decades you you love each other well yeah I meet this sorter happened you're from the perspective he was again is that it was intriguing to me because of the new world for me is a world that had been forbidden to enter and so beauty Internet world and to enter my own world always exciting for new guy in for me and then he's submissive by Jesus that I didn't know I didn't really know about Jesus in the context of interpersonal say you have the personal relationships that was all that was very fascinating and intriguing and quite a draw for me.

Did you to them. The conflict Clarence not know if I think the we had and it was out. You know, was the boy thing that's going to end week at a rear impact was that honestly Chris you really didn't talk about race alive night we tried to avoid it. There were times I think we start discipling me that I was concerned for his safety because I was see his neighbors given the cow look today were normally reserved for me is sized to serve him and his family and was about late he saw those looks that I was concerned he is oblivious to it or not, but that was it. We have not had enough from my perspective any real conflict.

Gary any any tough love with Clarence but I remember the time when the got laxity studies when he was in college and he flunked out and had to move out of the norm in all and I know how I found out where he was. But anyway, I called the galley and was living with and moved in with place to stay, asking Pike's Peak to Clarence and he told Clarence he said Clarence and will talk to NSN, will you tell Clarence if he doesn't talk to me on the phone.

I'll be up there tomorrow morning, so Clarence decided talk to me on the phone and he shared you know that they feel like you disappointed me and that's why they won't talk to me and also will Clarence. I am disappointed I am up there.

I am disappointed.

I said but it's not the end of the world and I said there's there's still a future and God still has plans for you so you think about it, you might just come home for a while and work for a while and then will will talk and pray about what the next step is said but it's not the end of the world. Clarence, how you respond in your own mind.

Now looking back on that how important that was put in for me that you found me really surprised me, and increase may not notice my dad died about a year earlier or in so so really I never told Gary Viscount Lytton is my dad that my dad was alive I thought you had the best of two worlds had to dance. So he found Witzel he called me out your house embarrassed yoke as I was about beating the system and use that flip my midterm in a small final keep my 2.0 psychically basketball, but I forgot my final exam schedule flunked out in is actually homeless about three weeks and then this guy had me come stay with him so that I was young. The fact that he care really meant a lot.

United States is a time and you can gave me hope. I mean there's no outgoing home could have just been too embarrassing. So I found a job working at a youth center. Chicago gospel mission you center and I got my grades back up and then you got a partial scholarship to the Christian school blatantly knowing he was there for me really meant a lot and just to hear that another somebody listing you feel like there's some mistake that you've made in the that's the end of the world. Probably it isn't, but what I find the enemy doing Clarence is isolating and that's what he did with you. You know your excuse shame and guilt that all of that but there are people who love to you and and one of the best for you and were willing to.

There were down for the struggle, as they say last week on the program Clarence.

We talked about trends, racial trends, ethnic, cultural, adoption, and we talked about this, the idea of being colorblind that I don't see color anymore. I just see just a love my adopted child no matter where they're from or what color they are. Dad colorblind conundrum is really something that you want to address talk about that well.

I'm also diversity consultants and so I serve like Christian and secular organizations, helping them in their diversity in your areas issues and what they need to know is that kids were adopted by different cultures use between 1825 typically have an identity crisis. No matter how good the parents have been because they don't really fit in the parents culture in the lifetimes because they've been adopted and put into another culture they don't fit in her own culture and so they can be reject by two cultures they need to understand that to me in my office. My first session of doing diversity training someone will say Pam colorblind and we don't really need to have the session and I see that's really great asset. Wow. I'm sorry colorblind essay will what colors that shirt you have on and then essay is blue as a whole timeout. I see how to be colorblind till a color that is most people when they say that have a good intentions. They're trying to say want to buy equally and there are some who are should defensive you and if you ask enough questions you finally have a racial issue, but when people talk about colorblind the unintentionally misleading and it may stimulate negative emotions by people of color and race questions that Naomi simply asked this question if you will see color. That means you don't see me at my invisible and so it hasn't dear friends of the wounded more and I have never comes a big issue. If you colorblind then which culture are you going to implement yours or mine. If you're colorblind several because of something that a lot of people think about SI. I'm just suggesting that we shouldn't is not a great word to use because God is God difference in guys not colorblind. So to say were colorblind to create a problem and I think the goal is not uniformity but unity in a God brings people of all races together and try to make the one in Christ as brothers and sisters, but he did make them all essay something is really important that we don't deny our differences and that we don't in our God-given differences, but embrace that so people who adopt kids of different cultures should really learn about different cultures and share them with the child or their adopting that at they've adopted and raised not think Chris that's exactly what our speaker last week on the program was saying who has adopted two black children, along with the two biological children that she has is expose those children to their biological culture so that they to identify with with you know their their race or their culture along with the adoptive parents.

We help today's program is encouraging you about healing the racial divide in our country. This is Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman is the author of the New York Times bestseller "The 5 Love Languages" . He's also written a new book with Dr. Clarence Schuller titled life-changing cross-cultural friendships how you can help heal racial divides one relationship at a time.

Find out more at Clarence, can you give us the key ingredients needed for cross-cultural friendship. Well, I think some of things that we've already discussed, but won't be acceptance or an openness to those who are different from us and Gary talk about that when I came to the church and people were concerned. He said Hazel be okay. So there's an acceptance which is really important. I think have to have intentionality of, I think you have to be willing to risk rejection. Knowing Gary had me come in well when I was at the church and tell the people be okay. The risk of rejection from his neighbors wrist rejection from my peers by having friends are going to church. It was white. I think respect.

If we develop a relationship.

Also, forgiveness.

I think overcome.

Some are fears of different cultures extending grace and learn to spend time together. I think those are really some the key ingredients and in the whole idea of serving each other something celebrating other cultures and the saga of the culture. You have to understand their history so you do things together and then of 15 love lines is a thing acts of service, something we do some of those things and I you don't them all at once been the context build relationships that really helps cross-cultural friendship or free should be in the same race.

Intentional is the main word that you use there so let's cut to the chase Gary how you do this.

How do you begin and foster these kind of friendships that you're talking about Chris. I believe as Christians. The first thing we do is pray. If God loves everybody in the world and wants everybody in the world to know him and have a relationship with him. And if I am a Christian and have accepted his gift of forgiveness of sins and eternal life in a relationship with God, then wouldn't we assume since he told us to go in all the world share the gospel like disciples. When we assume that he wants to use me to reach people that I encounter in the normal flow of life. Many times, who are different from me and so I think this praying about it.

I think that many Christians Christian who really have never even thought about the whole concept of having a deep friendship with someone of a different race and so I think this praying say God did hurt this program. Or maybe read the book now and am beginning to think maybe you want me to do this, you know, so I'm just praying that you will help me to have open eyes to see the opportunities that that are around me and and lead me as I as I seek to reach out and and acknowledge people who are different from me. Something starts with a prayer because everything we do needs to be base with God. You know, we need the help of God and so I think if we do that, then God will open our eyes and the people maybe have just been walked down the hallways, were we work or where we go to school or sports events, and we say that we just never identified them.

We never had a conversation with them we might do rather than just saying hey how are you fine how are you we might pause long enough to say yeah I don't know if I've ever even got your name down but what he what is your name if it somebody to see on a regular basis to again that's that's kind of risky because you think they don't think it awful to me, don't even know their name. Well you don't know their name is be honest you know they may not know your name either, but at any rate, you can start having conversations with people.

I think it begins with an initial conversation which you just talk about anything to start with but it has to get deeper than the weather and sports. Eventually, which are the two common things we do talk about and so I think once that starts then maybe it might may be moved to having spending a break time together. If you work in the same place or maybe having lunch together are you know some something that you sit down together when you have a deeper conversation find out they're married and have kids, you get the names of the kids and all that sort of thing is just little by little, as we spend time together. You might have. You might have several lunches in every every lunch you have, you get to know each other better and then you consequently you start thinking in terms and asking questions about it was anything I could do that to help you or any are you struggling anywhere in your life or how are things going in if people sense that you are interested in them and you asked how are things going they will tell you how things are going just like the lady I mentioned earlier in the grocery store he said well I'm doing okay except my mother's really really sick SF if you ask questions as to how things going and then listen, you don't just walk away. They'll eventually if I think you're serious they'll begin to tell you and then you can say things are.

You might do to enrich their lives and their Clarence mentioned that whole attitude of serving others something. This is central theme of the Christian life. Jesus said about himself. I didn't come to be served. I came to serve and were called to serve others in the way he served us so eventually were looking for how we can help in the other person and when we help them then chances are if we have a need that I can fulfill her don't help us because friendships always a two-way streets. Never 1 Way St. So those are those kind of common ways in which we can start friendships. I like that and I have to turn to you Clarence and say you have been around for of a long time in the Christian world promise keepers and open exchanges between one church and another what you and Gary are talk about is really on a heart level CXXI. It's the micro rather than the great big change out there you really believe that this can happen at a big effect in the in the culture today.

I really do you know you see at times also begins that if they can amass move manner.

Someone have a friend in that I don't have a black friend, would you be our friend, and I usually get offended by that because a Visio black creating a black guy would do really carry go back and say will God what it what you sent to me. These allow that person to approach me as I look at Gary and my relationship my relation with other people of different cultures. The 101 I think is what really makes a difference.

I.e. develop friendships. You can have conflict that you work through it and if you work through conflict makes you closer together but I do think is the one on one and so you could actually disagree with someone politically about the even some theology, but if you Christians only your friends then your friends of his most important thing in all things are just yelling aside and not to persuade one another are the other about their political conviction of different things, but friendship gives his patients and he gives his understanding and we have understanding and all I tend to take the frustration out or alleviate some frustration I went. When we have differences.

So yeah, I think Garin are trying to do is share makes a difference in the world and gives you great patience with each other to we do disagree well and and that's when when you answer the question about Udo when he what he said when he walked up to the porch. It's like that could have broken the relationship right there but it was that conflict, and then that listening by you Gary that took you to a deeper level and continues this day.

So don't look at conflict as the worst thing that can happen it might draw you together right conflict is inevitable simply because were different husbands and wives have conflicts because they're different there to individual people and so cross culturally. We may have even more conflicts because we have different perspectives historically in our minds that the other person really don't understand your conflicts are simply a part of the process of developing long-term friendships and so that's why we do shouldn't be shocked by by conflicts, we should simply seek to understand each other, work through the conflicts clients what why does God celebrate diversity.

Does he think he does.

If we look to first Corinthians chapter 12 verses four through 27 was interesting that you have the body that talks about unity we have in many parts of talk about diversity and exist simultaneously and as I'm studying this morning's Garin are talking teaching on this topic. It seems to me that God really embraces difference.

But here's the deal that Gary has a difference that I have something I don't have vice versa. What God does with our differences. He creates a interdependency and we come together as we need each other that crazy unity that I really believe glorifies God as I think that's why God celebrates difference and and diversity is to really teach us how to become interdependent upon one another like we are with him in the body. Nothing that brings a smile to God's face. Well, I just you know is in the last few years, looking at all the divisions in the in the conflict. I just think something like this might be the very spark that will change things and I know that your hope Gary and Clarence that that that's what you want to foster here so thank you for writing this and put this together when we're excited about it. You know you cannot legislate friendships. We can legislate some things and we should and we have but that you can't legislate friendships that have to be forged one friendship at a time.

Clarence thanks for your work. Thanks much for having us send our prayers at people as a listen to this sheltered today that well. The hospital touch and they'll have the Philippians 413 I can do all things in Christ and strengthening that I can go out and be cordial. Say hello to someone of the different culture guy doesn't Clarence Schuller, who has written along with Dr. Gary Chapman life changing cross-cultural friendships and how you can help heal racial divide one relationship at a time to find out more.

The website five love that's five love languages coming up next week. Find freedom from depression and anxiety. Don't miss the conversation with counselor and I hate LME can Backing Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman's production meeting radio ministry in many violent thankfully

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