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January 17, 2022 3:00 pm
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Why is it apologetic to research what is found alive you have questions about Bible doctrine why Grimes is called responding to your questions and good afternoon everybody, quaint filling in this week formats with and excited to be here today we have a very special show I've been looking forward to this all week were going to be talking with Chris Martinson for Utah's voice for the voiceless of fantastic Christian ministry that does frontline outreach and gospel centered engagement on the issue of prenatal infanticide or what we would call abortion. So if you want to have get involved in the conversation. Have your questions answered. We will be taking calls later in the show. So go ahead and get in line now. Call 877-207-2276 again that 8078772072276 and get in line now also in a few minutes we can get you guys on the air and talking to Chris and myself about this important issue. So that said, let's not keep them wait any longer. Let's get Chris on the air. Chris, are you with me.
Yeah, I do enjoy doing good. It is so good to have you on here so you just start off by telling everybody in your own words a little bit about what the voiceless is and what it is that you do yellow boys voiceless Brookline ministry that we go to the right in front abortion clinic in Utah. There is only one Planned Parenthood target of the abortion. There is another clinic that just a couple of miles away that you will of the abortion, but the majority are done only one location so we go out there. Most most days for sometimes five days a week were usually doing something at least five days a week, but right there in front of the mill. We stand there we preach the gospel talk to anybody who is willing to listen and windbag for the lives of the babies but we we want to come alongside mom better for whatever whatever reason that brought them there. We wanted to take away that excuse to kill their baby so we help them with their whatever rent whatever problem they're having. We we want to come alongside them and help them with those things and help them get back on their feet, and it's not just do it and go on your way help you right now we want to view along with them for the rest of their lives as long as the letter of course no we don't have any requirements for them to accept our help.
We we just we help them, but that one side that is right in front of the abortion clinic the other side is ending abortion and we also go to our legislative side and we need to stop this through our politician, so we want people to run our politicians to run the bill to end abortion without any exceptions and give equal protection to these babies so that the other side. We do in the evenings on the weekends and anytime we can and then next time. I love that so much about you guys ministry is that you gospel centered directly to the people and you you provide material care extending on through the book, the life of the mother and the child beyond afterbirth, however long it's needed and so you there's that material aspect to it and then also not wanting to leave the walls as they are and so engaging for engaging politicians and really trying to push for justice, laws, and so if you'd like to accomplish all that there must be hundreds of people on your staff rights privately. There is no there is you, but throughout the abolition movement is pretty small. Unfortunately, but growing. It is growing as people become more aware of how the laws work and that we actually can end abortion and we can do it right here in Utah we don't have to wait for Roe versus Wade. We have state sovereignty Roe versus Wade is not a law, we can explore wrote there is more to it than just sitting around waiting for somebody to come into office that you can vote yes I'd like to end abortion. There's so much more than that.
So that's what we do but we also train we have training classes that we offer to anybody who wants to come. I actually even will find it. Is there somebody out to eat.
That is doing it that it may be his new added. I try to help them so we can get more and more to really there's there's a few local churches. If you if you are wanting to get started in this in this kind of ministry. Engaging on sidewalk and reaching people with the gospel saving babies lives and you just don't know where to begin. You can contact voice for the voiceless and they will work with you to try to help you replicate this work, they will.
They're not competing with that they want more ministries like this out there doing this and so you guys so Chris, how would they contact you if they if somebody was want to get involved.
How might they contacted Chris always few ways you can contact but the best way would be directly to throw website for voice for the voiceless stoplight. Or you can search on Facebook Utah's voice for the voiceless of messages right through their and and you can call, text message or email. That way, but also important to know that it's not just the we actually are starting help.
Utah through apology a church in Arizona based started and abortion now ministry MD gave platforms for churches to get an supplied them with material that knowledge to go out to do this in their state and they are an amazing if you don't know all of your church go to end abortion now.com and you can sign up with them as well and and start your your local church can can do this and you'll find more people around as you start better more than willing to help in the want to help you. So take a step back know when I first met you Chris. There was no such organization as a voice for the voiceless.
You were just a guy with a God-given passion to save babies lives you were going out there on your own doing this sidewalks gentle some of the early stories of what it was like getting started, to know some of the early mistakes made the victories for the good of the ways that God used you, you know, talk about that sidewalk ministry to cut and started all of this.
Yeah, I can actually take back even further than that, but my wife and I to Utah and cut in a nutshell, we we ended up wanting to really get involved with the abortion ministry and so that's how we came across that abortion now had they did it equip us, but we we were just didn't know anything about.
Actually, I was nervous of how just stepping out and and talking with what would I argument how would I respond to people that that were were angry at me for just offering help and so it took a lot. I watched a lot of you to Jeff Durbin an apology and how did they respond that I took some of their online training courses and then Kelly and I started this, we it's been a little over a year and 1/2 now.
I think it's been a little over a year now and we went out to Planned Parenthood and I had a fine with the Bouchard bead were taunted that all that was what we can help and we were we were didn't know what to do. We we just love the Lord leave that and we did to get some of those things that that I had talked about it at our church as a mission church in South Jordan granite is demeaning and he was very still if you got to get to know this guy, there's a guy named Brian, you need introduced yourself to him and see and talk to him about his youth actually been out your for a while so we ended up meeting him and found out that he had been out by himself in front Planned Parenthood, but for six years before anybody would help them so we ended up getting to know him started the brawl in there with him and a few more people would come in and out. We had Crossroads Church. Now all of you moved out here other churches that are coming to get involved and so you know, get people picture what's it look like while you're out there doing it.
Now I can so I can save as somebody who's volunteered and gone out there is not as of what you do that each person finds their own rhythm.
So your way of doing it is gonna look exactly like someone listening right now who goes and finds you know their way of doing it. So give us a picture of you a snapshot of what it looks like out there how you get people to come talk to you how those conversations go you know some of the victories. Some of things to celebrate.*Yeah like that it is different for there's different approaches for sure and we do want it bringing the truth. Every time we don't want to hide any of it so we we do use graphic design.
We tell them we use the gospel of the command you not to kill your baby and there will be judgment for it but but that that method but we want to do it in and out make sure it's in a loving way when they are approaching us. We we kinda have to read the situation there there angry or they're scared and we talk to them and related that lovingly we asked them to talk with the sometimes we need to provoke them a little bit. And then talk with them and and death that worked and been we share the gospel with them. We tell them about our ministry and and maybe maybe 1% of the people will actually stop and talk with us, but we have had lately. Don't have a chalkboard with with the with the amount of rescue that come out of there but in the last year we maybe figured out 50 babies have come in been rescued out of there but got got several of the 40. About 4000 or more than five and Guardian that even and even beyond. You know, there's the babies that have been rescued and those every single one of those is a life literally say we celebrate so many ways to have victory in the and let's talk about that more right after this break guys just stay tuned. Chris and I will be right back with you. Why call 77077 back to the show everybody this is Wayne filling in for Matt slick week excited about what we have going on today.
I am interviewing my good friend Chris Mortensen with voice for the voiceless.
A Christian minister to those who haven't been listening to Christian ministry that the gospel centered outreach engaging people on the issue of prenatal infanticide what would commonly be called abortion. And so we been talking with Chris bringing him back on online now so Chris you okay so it so you will you have these conversations with these out with these women, and sometimes they have the opportunity that sometimes will make the choice to get to give you a shot to say. Okay I'm knocking to go in and have this abortion.
I'm going to receive get a chance to help make and what happens from there.
What are some of things you guys would do what will we find it is really dangerous. A lot of them need somebody that can. They can talk to that is that is maybe walk in their shoes before somebody that that they can at least talk to. We so we want to hear their story and we want to hear all those things that that there thing, even if we parted before we wanted the first time that there expressing that we tried to talk with them. Find out what they need and then we we get them into a place that neutral may be taken down to the coffee shop, a place away from their we'd like to take him straight into an ultrasound that would be first, we can can say hey you know let's go over to either the pregnancy resource Center or we have another place that will take them to get an ultrasound, make sure their state. Make sure the babies they and then they get a chance to see that baby on the ultrasound and once they've seen that baby on the ultrasound. Usually when it clicks and they say this is a lie. Now all the lies that I've been all about is not a life until five weeks or 10 weeks or 21 weeks, but it or when it's board. They know that those are all why so that the most important thing is try to get that ultrasound but also separate them and ask them what they need.
What are their immediate needs and we want to take that those who think that they've been struggling with.
We want to give him at least a 30 minute 30 day month breeder will will pay their bill. There was an example, there was somebody that went ahead and very angry about even being there and Brian at about earlier you talk to down and let you know we we don't want you will want to talk to us about this since the date they ended up taking our information we given that information. They left contacted him that night found out that they had had a she had had a warm shower in six months because her gas bill is been turned off while Brian paid that for that night and she had a warm shower that night and that that was what her mind was saying look I can even have a hot shower click can't pay my gas. So how my going up for this baby and that's what had done it so some of them need a place to stay there there homeless. Maybe they're just got kicked out of apartments or car payment late we want to we want take that away from them. Those dresses and then go from there and work with them to get on top of their budget. Teach them how to budget and so that they can walk on their own. Get them given the medical treatment, medical care that they need and all of that data going forward will really walk with them away from the mill. You guys do you recognize as you talk to these people and hearing their stories that there is a moral dimension there. Things for which you have to call this person to repent and believe the gospel and change their mind about things but there's also a practical dimension that most people are going in those buildings have things wrong in their life that become the reasons or motivators for doing this and you take those those things away and you because you genuinely are acting out of care for the child but also for the parents right there that's right. When we are there we are sharing the gospel with them at the mill and that that is always the first thing we talk a lot about that and we tell them you know that if we work Christians and we didn't love them we would be out there.
We love God we love our neighbor. They are, and those babies are neighbors and so we we bring that to them and tell them that that's what were going to be talking about.
That's why were there and they need to know that and want to give you an example. When I was there with you that I realized really quick and and this is if you don't have a plan parent facility near you that forms the actual prenatal infanticide procedures, but they just do the initial screenings and people to the person facilities. Buchanan still have an impact by going and standing out there because you're getting a chance to talk with people before the very day of the abortion when the emotions of the highest and so that's what we did for a while. Chris and I don't actually remember those days we were out a plan parent facility at that facility did not actually do the procedures but they did people initial appointment and then referred them over and schedule them for it. And so we would stand out there. I would use signs just to get people's attention and to direct them to URLs and resources.
But as they drove in night handout attract handed out towards their car and most people destroyed by that some people pull over leather window over let me handout to be like a got time to just come over talk for a minute and some wanted and so you it's a three-step process from side to handing out something to offer to the and then finally to them coming over and talking to you and in that conversation. Even the people who recheck your help you get a chance to share the gospel and I got the chance to share the gospel with so many people in the word of God is powerful and so even on top of everything else in all the other important reasons for this is just a great way to share the gospel to meet people who need to hear the good news of Jesus Christ and to have the opportunity where yeah the majority are going to stop and talk to you but just enough will that it is to be out there. It is we've we've actually gone downtown and stood out there we going to conferences and just get on the street and share the gospel with them in and let them know where and what the Bible and where it is all over the Bible where he says rescue those you take away that hold back those stumbling the name and the way that Rick Wright demanded and is a way of death and we, there is there is so so many things that fit people of just heard from our government is going to all you guys make sure you call this a 77072276 your questions. Even your challenges objections want to hear from you when we get back. Why call 77077 pairs nicely. No claim filling in for Matt slick and we've been talking with a good friend of mine Chris Mortensen from Utah's voice for the voiceless of a Christian ministry that engages on the issue of prenatal infanticide. What we would commonly call abortion to make gospel centered approach doing sidewalk ministry in front of blue abortion facilities providing material, emotional, and spiritual women who are in that situation. Helping single mothers and also we haven't talked about much and what I'd like to shift gears over to them talk about in a minute is the political side of things. Okay, what do Christians do. How can we be involved on promoting just laws on this issue.
But before we get to that were to go to the phone lines where David from Kansas City has a question for us. So David, you are on the air right. Thank you. I have a question is its philosophical but it also blows down to how we actually get involved in the abortion issue say we have an understanding of throughout history.
Read the whole history of the Christian church. Some people believe only baptized infants go to heaven. Some people believe that all infants go to heaven under Jesus's general dispensation of suffer not the children, and to me that such is the kingdom of heaven.
So my question is if it's the general call all innocent children go to heaven.
As David said I will be with him.
You know if it's a general called all infants die before the age of accountability go to heaven.
Then why would we care if somebody in Seattle has an abortion because if they all infants go to heaven.
The probably more likely to go to heaven them being raised by a liberal feminist in Seattle that make sense.
Do you understand Oracle, I hear what you're saying but even if we assume and will come back to that.
But even if we assume that all babies are guaranteed heaven. Would you approve of. If somebody started slaughtering two-year-olds as they were just not care because I'll get them to heaven… Allowable two-year-olds brought right obviously that is clear that we thought we were when we recognize that murder is occurring that there is a grave injustice that we enter we intervene and that is it is wrong and we have to bring that sort of thing to a stop and so it's trying to say will let people so that good may come.
Let's murder because we think are murdering will get people in that's that's wicked stunned that there is no place for that kind of all pragmatism. We try to use sin to accomplish good in Christian thinking beyond that, I greatly I think that was my guide.
I don't actually think that the Scriptures unambiguously tell us that all children go to heaven. I think that I think that in fact I think there is. Perhaps just for this very reason. What were talking about right now. We've been left with but as he said he wealth the history of the church. This issue has been debated and questioned simply because I think we can have enough in the character of God to take comfort if a child dies of natural causes, causes or an tragedy to say will I trust in the junk assembly in the compassionate character of God, but I think we should also have enough concern for the soul of that child and to say well I'm not going to work with dice on.what I'm to do everything I can to protect this child and have them grow up knowing the gospel have the chance to put their explicit faith in Jesus Christ and I think that's the attitude that a Christian ought to have David yeah I was trying to unpack that in a logical way so that we can present that as a limit on against you because those are the arguments that I had thrown at me. I understand yeah yeah and so that's the way that I would present that this is exactly like that. First of all, laying out the fact that we don't do evil that good may come were commanded biblically thought to do that and let out a lighter guide by saying that it did it. We have no basis to take comfort in God's God's mercy and his is compassion that we can we can hope in him at the loss of a child, but I don't think were given sufficient guarantee that we can just write off all the children.
I think we need to we need to left just enough doubt as to what happens to him to the children who die in infancy. We do everything we can to preserve their lives that I would present reason that objection right absolutely do not need our culture with now and I agree that I will thank you, Colin and David, I've received you raising that issue because I think that is the concept a lot of people spot so I appreciate it. And so to call back any time, and I'm going because of the system I'm on. I can't have you and Chris on at the same time, some to go ahead and get back over to Karen so that he can offer is known that he might add to back to your question back on all right Chris you are back on with us right now and so did you have anything to add on David's question yeah I made what you said was absolutely right on their course, returning the Scripture. What is what is God say about this and he says not to murder your baby. But he also talked about child sacrifice and rescuing those being taken away the data but he also stated in Jeremiah 19 five that it doesn't even come into his mind. He says that the burnt offering the child sacrifice was that he didn't command or decree. It doesn't even come into is my command just equal protection for these babies.
Isaiah 115 to 17 is bring justice to the fatherless and clean the windows because there is all over the Bible so that we do not give these babies up to the child sacrifice which is abortion is what we we call it our days and you remember me.
This is child sacrifice at the aerosol warfare out there in these babies have been. They've made a covenant with the devil for giving these babies to him and the child sacrifice and that he doesn't want to give this there are state that that we've met out there is a matter fact in in at Planned Parenthood in downtown Salt Lake right behind the directly behind him. The house behind them is a lady that says that his holder that she does child that she does séances and that the worshiping the child tax laws that are taking place right next door to her so the answer to that is God is that God commands the not and that's where we go absolutely, absolutely. So if anybody else has any questions on this subject, or on any subject to the show, you know, just call on an 877-207-2276.
We want to hear from you guys but that said, so we talked about a lot of what goes on on the sidewalk and there's so much more that we could say there but that's not all, of what you guys do as you guys got going without you began to get involved in other parts of advocating for for the unborn and ending this injunction and that's on the legal and political side effects. So what can and every day time working but you know Christian in the pew to change our laws. How do people get involved there there you have to get a law of involved politically at some level that's where it is so there's city Council. There calling your legislator there. If there is a group that started their they like-minded group you can work together to change the laws understand the process of the delegate to add finding people to the run for those how the tenancy settled on the bill but but start start small mean you can go to your city Council proclaim the gospel tell them that we need equal protection and you will see more people as your old boldness free over and encourage greed, courage and more people. Yeah that's right I'm glad of anything in it and you can join together and and get a hold of. Like I said earlier in abortion now around. All right, we're coming up on another break you guys: 877-207-2276. Get in line to talk to me and Chris about any issue on which you have questions. Will be back with you right after the break. Why call 77077 pairs nicely.
Wayne went filling in for Matt slick and excited to be here with you and with my special guest Chris Mortensen from voice for the voiceless great Christian gospel centered ministry that engages on the issue of prenatal infanticide or what is commonly called abortion. And so if you want to talk to Chris or myself on this or any biblical issue call in at 877-207-2276.
We want to hear from you guys and I'll get to go to the phones right now where Darrell from Virginia have a question Darrell. You are on the air.
A good evening all, good evening, rocking cockle, can you hear me talking.
I can hear you. Okay okay sorry I just got much rocket was that it only caught the last bit of the conversation that you were just having the belt whether babies go to heaven or not. So I wanted to just add a little bit that conversation all see what you guys think all of taken position basically that prior to Christ. The resurrection primarily is that the when the Old Testament saints died that they did not go to heaven but once they all so I should probably stop there. The you know if where you guys stand on that would be most people use the term go to heaven as shorthand for whether somebody is saved or not, whether they will ultimately spend eternity with God or not we could get into the complexities of the intermediate state between now and resurrection future resurrection hope all of that. When most people use the terminology do babies go to what they really are asking is for those babies saved will they spend eternity with God, with the redeemed or because of being solid and send will they spend eternity in hell at it.
So I think that's really what people are asking is not the not try to get into the nuances of what happens immediately after day where the intermediate state is where people were before before Christ director Christ all about, but ultimately in the end. At the end when all said and done after final judgment where are they going to spend eternity. The expense and so with that being with focus is where we were where we were going with Tartar terminology for okay will.
With that being the focus that is really cool poker and that you know the point of eternal redemption and just all in Hebrews chapter 10 it starts out speaking about the sacrifices of the law and that the comers thereunto were not made perfect, and then all by the sacrifice of Christ in verse 14 of chapter 10 in Hebrews. All those that have been sanctified have been made perfect or complete forever in my view that speaking in a context of remission of sin, which contrasts the Old Testament all where they were not made complete in regards to remission of sin through the sacrifices of the Old Testament. However, in the sacrifice of Christ. That is how one is made complete in regards remission or another were absolutely carnally for only way anyone has ever been saved through the complete perfect finished work of Jesus Christ. Even in the Old Testament Old Testament sacrifices pointed to what God was ultimately going to provide no one in that even under the old covenant even before Christ came. No one was redeemed. Nobody was ultimately saved through those sacrifices so anyone who is saved in any age ever is saved because of what Christ did and so that that is absolutely correct.
And so here like yeah will the punchline. All the Old Testament thing not being not having read the remission of sins or an eternal basis when they die, we see a parallel between the Old Testament thing prior to Christ and the, the infant or the child in the womb dies. All you have two groups of people so to speak that have died prior to having read the eternal redemption for good move for an and that's where you know that conversation would open up and I know that all Matt is all very reformed in his belief and I know reform believe that regeneration has taken place throughout biblical history. All but it's a little hard to reconcile that be that eternal redemption was a coxswain with your questions by court. While the question is, wouldn't we want, we speak about whether children that are afforded in the womb or diet a young age or unit died before the so to speak.
Age of accountability.
All the a lot of some of the thought is well.
The cant go to heaven unless they have faith in Christ, whereas the old question was that that is the question is all your view on the parallel between two groups that have not see the gospel so I do not think it's a perfect parallel because I do basic people in the Old Testament received the promises of what was to come and were able to exercise faith in God and so the question of infant is still in the covenant and the new. A distinctive question the questions have to wrestle over wherever you land on it it doesn't ultimately affect where are our focus was on that conversation and that is what is abundantly clear in Scripture is that we are not to shed innocent blood of of anyone, including children and that would include children who have not yet been born since the Bible definitely regards them as as alive and and so regardless of where one lands on the eternity that was the focus of that conversation so but thank you for your call Darrell. Please appreciate having Avion and will look Chris, would you have would you have anything to add to that conversation know hundred percent God says that I agree with everything you said there got them all right. So in our last few minutes. There's so much more that I wish we had time to talk about in our last few minutes, let's get you we were talking about on the political side you're reaching out to your city Council try to convince them to establish your local city is a sanctuary city for the unborn. You're reaching out to your state representatives are trying to make political change chided to do what you can advocate on whatever level you can. What kind of laws are you writing and calling for what kind of change are we looking for equal protection. That's the bottom line is important to know that the law that they have it now are not equal protection to the freeborn. They always write in section than those bills that they're putting in now or most of the bill that I seen actually all of the gold art incremental build Bellevue they'll say things like you. You cannot kill have an abortion due to baby because the baby has Down syndrome and that sounds good tugs on archery for great that the victory but yet that same bill.
You can kill that same baby. Just because you hate it or you don't want the baby or you had a bad day that doesn't establishing equal protection protection. We want to complete 100% no no no abortion is allowed under any exceptions and that's what we bring to our our local government and are state government, absolutely. And if you want to educate on the national level to go right ahead. But all voice for the voiceless that the strategy they taken that many ministries are taking is to start local and state level start where you or your representatives might pay the most attention to you and answer what are some of we got maybe a minute left, but real quick.
What are some of the responses you've gotten.
When reaching out to representatives that they all just ignore you.
What happened you'll see that when you talk about inflation. There there really set on incremental laws they they feel like little by little days. That's what they need to do, but we seen that over 50 years that have worked and abolition you can you can have it stop immediately right now with the bill – what we go after and I would also recommend it to go on to these these Facebook searches out the voice of the voiceless and are you to channel our videos abolish abortion taxes and abortion now you'll see those interactions between the politicians as well on those channels and you get a lot more educated by being able to see it. Okay absolutely, absolutely no let me just delighting around the objections that are often put out there and you give me your quick response. My body and my choice that is not your body. The baby is inside your body is not your body. You don't have forearm when he told the different body in the life of the moment of conception that God says what about a situation where the woman will die giving birth to this child to the life of the mother is physically at stake, but what about that is not an exception. You want as you build in your walk with God.
A doctor's job is to save lives and days need to see that baby Dalglish.
Oh what is going on there. There are going to try to state both wives. The baby and the child you talking to going to Planned Parenthood because the life of the mother is at stake.
You're going to go into the hospital and they're going to try to save both wives that that is where you need to be not in front of okay what about you know, do you are you really saying that that you can force someone to use their body to support someone else's body isn't that really what you're forcing on women when you make them stay pregnant with the child.
Come on this isn't that wrong, it's your mother you're pregnant of this baby. You're a mother right now and that baby is in your will alive and is looking for you for protection and ended knocking it and you being a mother just because you kill that baby, you're going to continue to be a mother just going to be a mother of a child that you took the death there is a a lot of anguish that you can have to live with the rest of your life that we want joy.
Are we are out of time.
This is Chris Martinson with Utah's voice for the voiceless check about online life on Facebook Utah's voice for the voiceless and we back with you tomorrow on meth with life powered by the Truth Network