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Sunday Morning / Jane Pauley
The Truth Network Radio
March 27, 2022 1:40 pm

CBS Sunday Morning,

Sunday Morning / Jane Pauley

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March 27, 2022 1:40 pm

Host: Jane Pauley. David Martin looks back at the Kremlin's earlier quagmire in Afghanistan and how it relates to Ukraine, while Christina Ruffini visits the studios of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty. Plus: Seth Doane talks to a Russian oligarch critical of sanctions; Tracy Smith delves into the making of "The Godfather"; David Pogue examines one of Hollywood's most innovative directors, Buster Keaton; Lee Cowan reports on the controversy of trans athletes in sports; Kristine Johnson attends a museum exhibition curated by security guards; David Edelstein offers his Oscars predictions; and Faith Salie visits a sparkling exhibit of gems at the American Museum of Natural History.

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Our CBS Sunday morning podcast is sponsored by Edward Jones college tours with your oldest daughter updating the kitchen to the appropriate decade retiring on the coast. Life is full of moments that matter and Edward Jones helps you make the most of them.

That's why every Edward Jones financial advisor works with you to build personalized strategies for now and down the road so when your next moment arrives bigger small, you're ready for it. Life is for living. Let's partner for all of it. Learn more@edwardjones.com morning. I'm Jane Pauling and this is Sunday morning. The fighting in Ukraine is moving into a second month with invading Russian forces largely held in check but relentless Russian shelling continues to devastate the country, will have reports from national security correspondent David Martin in Washington and Christina Ruffini in Prague, but first economic sanctions were among the West's first responses to the Ukraine invasion aimed in particular at those so-called oligarchs. Russia's billionaire businessman, many of them close to Vladimir Putin, who saw their assets frozen around the world. So just who are these mysterious oligarchs sandstone talks with one of them this morning you put your ATM card in the book females like Mikhail Friedman made millions in Russia and now the West is making him pay for it.

It's all collateral damage right you are collateral damage because the Lord who cares about this. Redoing us head on Sunday morning we get the rare chance to speak with the sanctioned Russian oligarch.

Of course it's Oscar Sunday so were going to the movies. Perhaps tonight's biggest prize as the Oscar for best picture Tracy Smith this morning since down with some of the stars along with the legendary director of one of the best best pictures ever undressed restricted reaper off-line, but I'm a first rate sectary years ago that second rate director made a movie that still stands as one of the greatest ever, Francis Ford Coppola sees director and the story behind the Godfather coming up on Sunday morning, breaking records on the track and in the pool making waves in the culture wars. Lee Cowan will look at the complex debate surrounding transgender athletes to be a swimmer to know the name Leo Thomas transmitted an athlete at the center of an emotional debate when it comes to women. They're just supposed to say this transgender person is really bullied, so please make a way for transgender athlete hatred and vitriol that we are seeing in the world is just obscene as unacceptable balancing inclusion and fairness in sports is it even possible? Later on Sunday will historian Douglas Brinkley has an appreciation of the life and times of former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright plus critic David Edelstein on the Oscars humor from Jim Gaffigan and more on this Sunday morning for 27 March 2022 will be right.

Despite 150,000 troops and superior firepower. Russia's invasion of Ukraine has stalled badly. David Martin remembers an earlier Russian invasion and find some striking parallels long before Russia invaded Ukraine long before you ever heard of Vladimir Russia invaded Afghanistan and it was Christmas of 1979 and Michael Vickers was working for the CIA. Nobody gave the Afghans a chance. In 1979 Russian students of went in to install a puppet regime. 10 years later, the last Soviet defeated by Afghan rebels formed by CIA operation was the only time the red Army had been defeated in its history is only a month invasion of Ukraine and already what was supposed to be a cakewalk is turned into a bloodiest law probably cover box and Soviets were about to talk about his economy is being destroyed.

You have to look at this and see Russian power being destroyed both militarily and economically its international position. You know how long are you going to let this go on will hold Soviets or Goshen for 10 years is that the kind of timeframe looking out for your great I think the timeframe is shorter but I don't see how Russia takes the pain sustained period of time, and sent 100,000 troops into Afghanistan. 150,000 great Soviet army that is performed in Florida cases of Afghanistan in the 80s that a lot better than the Russians are doing is been unable to achieve his initial goal of seizing the Kievan overthrowing the Zielinski government.

Although he is expected to regroup and try to get on people talk about doubling down with is really doubled. This population instruction strategies discourse tertiary really always got left. If succeeds seizing installing what happens next. While I don't think a puppet regime survival, the Russian army really can't pacify the country.

The population hates them. The parallels between the wars in Afghanistan and Ukraine are striking with one glaring difference in 1985 when the red Army was mired in Afghanistan. The man at the top in the Kremlin was the reform minded Rico Gorbachev. He said I will try to win this war one last time, will give you more troops, which got a year to Gorbachev and affect double-barreled he did doubled out and then by early 86 months and years after you Ukraine bring about the collapse of prudence. Russia I think for the first time in 22 years. His continued rules more? Even if he survives Russian state is likely to be severely weakened but invasion intended to restore the Russian Empire. Now what is losing for the first time one smaller victories. Now you're losing back what you do go free Europe you may have thought of it as a relic of the Cold War. But as Christina Ruffini explains its mission remains the same fighting disinformation behind the Iron Curtain. This is Christina Ruffini disinformation.

This is the front line. Prague writers, producers and social media hosts for radio free Europe 80 a liberty are battling Kremlin propaganda role is to provide certain journalism, socially local journalism in countries where freedom of the press is undersold. Jimmy flies the president of RFE, which operates in 27 languages and 23 countries, including Russia to see what these are countries where the message is decided every day in a government office about what people should see what they should hear what they should be told what is it like having this conflicts as a Russian. There is no easy way to talk about it synergistically on the sky is an anchor for RFE's Russian language network touching at I see McRae I don't want to push anyone, and I think that people should come to conclusions themselves. They need to have the options and that's the biggest problem with media. In Russia there are no other options. Those other options disappeared earlier this month when Russian Pres. Vladimir Newton imposed a restricted new media law forcing almost all independent outlets to shut down. We warned that unless we start the sensor or content about the war in Ukraine that we would be blocked. We refuse to sensor so our websites are no blocked and that's where Patrick Boler comes in part, that's a cat and mouse game where you try to anticipate what they're going to do when you react, head of digital strategies helping keep RFE and its consumers one step ahead of the sensors. So is it a race against time to stay ahead of whatever measure their implementing. They will block our site then they might block the copy of our site but then we just create another copy of our site and another copy like lacrimal. This strategy seems to be working since the war began. RFE says it's page views from inside Russia are up 51% getting past Russian sensors is to know your territory to RFE started in 1950 as a Cold War counter propaganda machine, piercing the Iron Curtain shortwave radio broadcast radio free Europe me there are general claim to be entirely funded by public donations but that wasn't true at CBS's Mike Wallace reported in 1967 radio free Europe need your support if you responded to the many appeals for radio free Europe then you became part of the CIA, CIA involvement ended in 1971 and RFE became an independent agency openly funded by Congress. Still the Soviet Union. The organization has seen its relevance questioned its funding/even as Moscow has retooled its messaging machine. The digital age it is harder to reach audiences now is much more sophisticated we have to compete more have to be more relevant. Nimble that we did during the Cold War to adapt to new audience trends far Cold War relic radio free Europe radio Liberty says its mission is now more relevant than ever. Earlier this month Congress increase the agency's budget 15% information on this truthful objective reporting will play a huge role, eventually helping bring about change inside Russia ultimately trickle everyone of this building subscribes about notion, otherwise they would work for was targeted by Western economic sanctions Russian billionaires.

The oligarchs we've heard so much about in recent weeks. So who are they watch their response to Vladimir Putin so-called special military operation in Ukraine hears Seth down.

You have billions of dollars in a bank, but you can't know little. He's a billionaire in an unusual predicament new access to cash because this month. Mikhail Friedman became get another Russian oligarch to be slapped with those economic handcuffs, sanctions did you learn your sentient phone from his mom.

We got gay. All of these measures will significantly harm Putin's ability to finance his work punish Russian Pres. Vladimir for invading Ukraine US and its allies are going military intervention in using the financial weapon of sanctions aimed at both the state and individuals deemed close to flashy assets are being seized bank accounts frozen your ATM card in the book.

Most likely let's get anyone.

Friedman made his billions in banking and retail.

But now lives in London is on the UK and EU sanction lists I wouldn't expect you to tell me on camera but I would think that a billionaire must have access to money will know somewhere there must be a there must be an account there must seems hard to believe I'm here I'm here because I would like to explain sanction against us unfair, useless voice, one wrongly accepting business in Russia can't wealthy Russian businessmen close to food and have some impact so forcefully should understand that our existence with Mr. Putin and everybody around him is huge. Even assuming that I won't miss having you in channels you can't make billions in Russia without being close to the Kremlin yet that's that's very typical and unappropriate majority of Russian private business people look for any personal ties with Mr. from his earliest days of political power. Putin has been using corruption as a tool to enrich himself and expound his power, everyone swings and not Walter author Tom Burgess wrote clip Topia dirty money is conquering the world. He says the West is been gorging on Russian money, whether in property. This is Friedman's $85 million London mansion. Now a frozen asset for sports teams, Chelsea football club, one of the world's most valuable franchises is owned by sanction oligarch Roman Abramovich. How do you know this is dirty money that's being blocked by the sanction monies, huffing to define.

You could make the argument that anyone who is made and retained an enormous fortune in the dictates that we know to be profoundly corrupt the nonperson is to some graceless extent complicit in that regime's power still to show us that his money is clean Friedman sentence. This audit by Ernst & Young which he commissioned is a man straddling different worlds. These Russian and Jewish and was born and raised in what is now Ukraine, then part of the Soviet Union always authority including business and what you think of Pres. Slutsky. I think he is present both independent country and he is very brave and strong person is instant in a letter to employees before he was sanctioned. Friedman wrote war can never be the answer each one of the few oligarchs to speak out against the invasion of Ukraine. You said you were against the war against the world can't criticize. I think there is now in climate is Russia's military tolerance was regressed support and recently made it very clear regarding drinkers in Oakland.

Defendant is on the state you think he was talking about you.

I do know I'm in the mail.

The state do you think you're a traitor and Putin's view. I hope looks like. What is that mean for you.

It's very difficult information by any damage in all of the people suffering in this war, many do not have a lot of sympathy for Russian billionaires direct and I understand that's cute. Friedman acknowledges the effectiveness of the wider sanctions that have crippled Russia's economy, but claims these collateral damage the cells.

Friedman says where's the due process in this Friedman has point their civil servants and politicians writing names on lists we really want is a criminal process right if someone is guilty of corruption. You can prosecute them for the dangerous sanctions is that they start great this system outside the rule of law where people are targeted with very little due process now streaming progress and start wearing crazy time once final point is when people are the best way to protect good people is to convict final season Millstream Barrymore called Mike that I want to tell you about our new shout to his knees and each episode mean a weekly gastric cover all the quirky find inspiring and informative stories that exist because well and maybe you do too.

From the newest interior design trend Barbie car to the right and wrong way to wash her arm. Also getting the things that you just kind of will probably not able to do in daytime television. So watch out. Tristan is ever you get your podcast good news on the got. That's one of the hottest debates in sports.

The inclusion of transgender athletes in competition and as Lee Cowan tells us there are no easy answers, 21-year-old Chris Draper is not someone you want to challenge in the gym just watching set up routine enough to make your rapture is a junior, swimming and diving team at college in Ohio. I was in the water before I can walk I started swimming competitively came here to compete from really every broke his hand.

He decided this season just compete on the men's diving team.

Instead, you might not recognize him from a distance.

That's Lucas women's bathing suit still where the women's side, I would like to at some point women's suit hides men's suit came to last year. Lucas had been competing on Oberland women's team this past November to begin a regimen of testosterone therapy as part of his transitioning to a man I was a tomboy from the walk. I always felt a little bit lost a little bit like I said in says he's happier now. This is the first season feel so for good. Lucas's transition is been supported coaches by his teammates. Acceptance isn't enjoyed by all transgender athletes, especially with 22-year-old Maria Thomas is one of the most controversial and accomplished collegiate trans swimmers competing today for three years. She swam of University of Pennsylvania's men's team for taking some time off turned this season to swim and she has become a Fino sport also defined by just suck it Thomas is sometimes so far ahead. She seemed waiting for her competitors to capture NCAA rules require friends with athletes to take testosterone suppression therapy, one year before competing Thomas is been on it for twice that will. Times have slowed since she was swimming winning streak as part of how to balance fairness better, on average, if you look at the most elite performers. Men are far, far ahead of what women were able to do and that's where the furnace question comes absolutely Dr. Michael Jordan, physiologist, researchers, human athletic performance at the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota. After studying Thomases times from male to female. He says statistically. She is an outlier. Emerging evidence is it our legacy effects of testosterone, especially people been through puberty as males and had exposures testosterone for prolonged periods of time. He expects that we as testosterone suppressants have indeed lowered her hormone levels down to those of six gender women. Those are women whose gender identities match the sex they were signed at birth but drunker says that hormone therapy can't reverse everything I it's probably not reversible. Hand size for the size. Some of the issues related muscle mass lung size and other things probably are never going to revert completely, if at all trans women will maintain bandages are those advantages large enough to include meaningful competition. Not clear at all. Joint harbor is a visiting fellow studying transgender athletic performance at Loughborough University. She wonders of the advantages trans women may have may also come to this event. Bodies and are now being power muscle mass, reduced aerobic capacity that can lead to disadvantages quickness coverage insurance, etc. her published studies are among the few trans athletes feel that she got interested in is a competitive when she began her room transition from Amanda woman back in 2004 within nine months of starting hormone therapy. I was running 12% slower and that's the difference between series, male distance runners and cities female students as a scientist I was intrigued.

She's now in the process of conducting a more long-term study of trans athletes usually do not get on the scale on any scale. That's in part because transgender people only make up an estimated 1% of the population elite trans athletes are only a tiny fraction of that.

That said, many in competitive swimming say we don't need exhaustive studies to decipher what they say is plainly evident to have somebody competing does have this unfair advantage, even if they don't, when it still corrupts the field. Nancy hog's head. Meiko won three gold medals at the 1984 Olympics in Los Angeles. They think that women should just move over and say here you go you take the spots she now heads champion women because the group for women's equality in athletics, Thomas has already greatly impacted women's sports. When Lee is in the finals.

That means another woman doesn't make it into the finals. You're not against trans athletes. You're just against trans women competing in the women's category correct when it comes to competitive sports is where where I would draw the line. I do think that transgender people have a really hard time in society and I want that to be easier, but we can't ask women to give up what we've worked so hard for this so that so that transgender women are able to compete that argument is already for some changes this year.

Mid season the NCAA announced that it was abandoning its rules that allow trans athletes to compete since 2011.

It will now in the future. Leave it up to the governing bodies of each sport to come up with their own rules at the legislative level was the day and trans women and girls from participating in sports are getting more and more common. 22 states have introduced bills just like that this year hello, these bills are devastating.

They are telling trans because they do not belong. Even the ones who don't want to play sports because it says hey you don't belong in one of the primary activities that children partaken Skyler Bailey was the first openly trans man in Division I swimming is now an advocate for transgender inclusion.

Is there any middleground in this debate.

I don't think that there is space to say yes I you affirm your identity, but I don't in sport.

You can't divide me in half and have my trans this my masculinity shop here and not over here she's ensuring we are Thomas R worries if she's excluded from sports just where does it stop what point is a woman too tall or hands too big.

I will point is not one that should go in with an advantage.

I think biodiversity exists everywhere and the realities people win and lose all the time and nobody considers unfair until it is a marginalized person. Specifically, black or brown woman and/or transient tension will Ron Leah Thomas recently at the NCAA national where breaking records but she did become the first known transgender athlete to win a Division I championship. Some celebrated others were angry.

Clearly, the debate is far from over. As for Lucas Draper. He's really not sure what the answer is a willingness he says to dive into the debate is at least a start at finding a solution.

People who identify as transgender very much in the minority. People just understands where you're coming from.

Where are you coming from. I just want to be me and me isn't my private parts at Solano inside the Albright diplomat Secretary of State historian Douglas Brinkley has our appreciation. There was something indomitable about Madeleine Albright who died this past week for her to represent this historic meeting history will remember her as the first woman service America Secretary of State while the fashionistas will forever swoon over brooches, flowers or balloons meant she was optimistic turtles.

Crabs signified exasperation.

The game is changed the rules to the are still being written during the 1990s and beyond what was her star-spangled hammer of democracy.

Theodore Roosevelt power realist with the Eleanor Roosevelt human rights. This position, our goal is a region where no nations to dominate others. Vladimir Putin considered her pro-democracy zealot while Saddam Hussein labeled her an unparalleled serpent, but to this child of Czechoslovakian refugees who fled from Nazi invaders and communist strongmen.

These criticisms will hosting rights when Bill Clinton was reelected president in 1996 there was a hunt to find a new Secretary of State.

Virtually all of Clinton's advisors wanted Sen. Sam Nunn of Georgia to get the nod to Clinton favor Albright proved to be an inspired choice. As a mother of three children. She refused to tolerate Saddam Hussein's ethnic cleansing of Kurdish villages and Slobodan Milosevic's genocide in Bosnia as we watch the Ukrainian war unfold.

Let's keep Mdm. Sec., in our minds and hearts for Albright's motto is the one that Pres. Zielinski is now nobly defending never take democracy for granted, except this just is not can you believe it's been 15 years since we first met the Corleone family 50 years on the Godfather has taken its place high on the list of classic Hollywood movies from Tracy Smith.

We have an offer you can't refuse slow this week. You only remember the first time you saw the Godfather by now, you can likely recite all the characters. From Clemenceau's cannolis came out half a century ago in March 1972 and when it did, the real Bob was at the theater, the Godfather broke all box office records at the time. Not bad for a film made by a director who at first didn't even want to make it back then, Francis Ford Coppola was a young filmmaker in business with another young gun George Lucas, but when Coppola first read Mario Puzo's book, the Godfather, he was underwhelmed. This is just sort of salacious try to make money at time of booking. So I disregard it with me. I turned it down. What changed your mind, George Lucas came braces Francis were going broker-dealer chamber door for lack of paying the rent of our American zoetrope studio and you have to do this, we have no other alternative. We need the money so Coppola took the job training. It is a dark tale of family succession and almost immediately began to butt heads with Paramount studio brass.

I was very I was 29, no power, they could easily push me around and tried to Coppola wanted New York stage actor Al Pacino to play Michael. The studio wanted anyone but and considered people like Robert Redford, Ryan O'Neal and Warren Beatty. They also wanted Sir Lawrence Olivier in the title role, but Coppola held out for Marlon Brando at 46 and in top physical shape.

Brando didn't look anything like an aging Don but with some world-class makeup. He was able to transform himself into a character.

He knew just how to play as counsel.

The cat was Coppola's idea was what he want me to do joke that like if he's ever seeing the bread was a herd of buffalo ran by in character. He was a look at the level you I'm saying it would make use of anything about and talk about genius Robert Duvall as family attorney Tom Hagan did this scene into takes shots. As always, Duvall had his lines down cold Brando probably didn't even like to memorize my yeah well, he claimed that seeing the lines he could he could be fresher I think was a form of laziness be in the shade with Pacino out in the backyard and a great big sun tree is alive from off the tree way. You know what just looks like he's thinking yeah well you know he was able to do that, but with all that talent. Coppola was in constant fear of losing his job. The studio's ideas and some of the crew he says would badmouth him behind his back. All these people here and you look so alone will that's really this picture is how I filtering the picture I just was not a happy camper.

Coppola wasn't totally alone. He cast to analyze is Corleone sibling James Kahn as Sonny and his real-life sister, Talia Shire as Connie, but they feared the worst.

For those first couple weeks that we will all shooting Francis's job was in jeopardy. Yeah, and I sisters had been on that that I will tell you that as it was very very tough turning point came after Paramount execs saw the dailies for this scene where Al Pacino as Michael prepares to kill two of his family's mortal enemies, the sound of the train helps build tension that you can feel kind Pacino's eyes till the moment for all the shoot them up summit Paramount worried that the Godfather is scripted wasn't violent enough.

Coppola says they actually wanted to hire someone to pump up the action in the film so he choreographed the violent fights between Talia Shire's character Connie and her no good husband, Carlo, played by Gianni Russo and so my shoes came off just running around in the broken things because you don't want to take to but it was was intense. Talk about intense for the scene where Sonny is gun down at the tollbooth technicians wired everything with small explosive charges calls with bullet strikes on me. I around the tollbooth 5000 genes a little but there were girls on the shed and I had to do it.

I swear I was. It was the result was a shockingly realistic way of brutality that looked lethal and actually could have been born a hole in your hand if you put your life do it many to take to elder brother and the winner is body output so I Francis the first Godfather movie won three Oscars, but bigger than that changed our culture in ways that still resonate today from the Simpson to the Sopranos through 100 times you haven't seen it like this for a while.

The studio restored the Godfather in time for the anniversary. So now it once again looks like the vision Francis Ford Coppola went through a kind of hell to make.

I would imagine that the wounds have healed by now. Balloons really do have some episode in your life when you were young woman that hurt you think about you anymore know you're right, it still hurts because we are creatures of feelings. Those feelings get linked with some thing go back and think about subject to break your heart again. Coppola of course went on to be recognized as one of the greatest directors of all time and he told us that ultimately Laddie took the job show you different a different sensibility.

So of course always the movie you do that is something a little different is rejected in its own time, but years later it becomes Godfather becomes the standard measure against the Boers art is ever blossoming flowers that were all part of a beautiful parent says it can grow up so fast but no one says it like our Jim Gaffigan as many of you know I have five children will be sad if I look like this and I didn't have five children right my daughters for my sons to its exhausting watching my wife to over the years I've done tons of stand up comedy three euros now for nine-year-old a year old two-year-old, one-year-old five more.

I even wrote a book whining about how my young children made my life hell.

And yes, come on this very so many times and grumbled about how hard my life with my young children was well I'd like to apologize. I was wrong. Dead wrong. Having five young children was a beautiful thing.

I know that now because I presently have five not young children in my life is absolutely horrible member thinking if we could just get these kids out of diapers, our lives will be so easy. I was nave and arrogant and yet awfully good looking.

I didn't know back then when the stranger would see me with my young kids in volunteer you're going to miss this.

I thought there were weirdos with no boundaries realize that stranger was bestowing a warning upon me that every horrible toddler eventually transforms into a tormenting team executing the karmic revenge of our own parent. I'm glad I didn't know every school morning with not young children would feel like a theatrical recreation of the fall of Saigon for the best that I didn't realize that the smell of a full diaper was sweet compared to the older over teenage boys anything. I guess my message to the parents of young children. It doesn't get better it gets more anyway. Have a nice Sunday morning tradition David Alstyne handicaps Oscars big night soda. This year's Academy Awards promise a new level of bummer. No, I admit, I always make fun of the show, but I've never before.

Wondered why does this thing still exist. Oscars traditionally celebrate movies that are both commercial and important, but now you only get that combo on TV everything is in flux and everybody's angry under pressure to speed up it's getting towards before airtime and showing just the highlights Jessica Chastain about the red carpet but to sit inside with the people who did her peepers in the eyes of Tammy Faye. This is who I am. You even have a dog in the best picture fight for a while.

The most powerful dog look like Jane Campion's the power of the dog.

A portrait of sexually repressed cowboys which I found wanting. Boy did need someone to explain the ending Kenneth Branagh's autobiographical drama Belfast has more middlebrow but there's a dark cold about a family of deaf fishermen. It's very touching. It's totally conventional, which could be the ticket.

If you can still focus on Oscars. Will Smith will likely win for King Richard is Venus and Serena Williams is that Serena shakeup this world best doctors. I'm less sure of Spencer's Kristen sport is picture superlative, but Jessica Chastain has the edge. Academy members want to give thumbs up to people who give the Academy thumbs down. I expect it will be an unpleasant model of the ceremony in the service of been a relevant medium. Any year in which nothing is certain but uncertainty which means it might be the most freakishly riveting Oscar ever where everyone at home and in Hollywood is constantly asking why does this thing still exist.

Thank you for listening.

Please join us when our trumpet sounds again next Sunday morning this week. Stephen Long live Mitch McConnell in one of Washington's biggest midterm monument list for me to Senate races you think Republicans have the best chance of taking a democratic seed with Nevada not Georgia.

Georgia is right up there with New Hampshire's products to New Hampshire people really just kind of don't like you have for more from this week's conversation, follow the take out with Maj. Garrett on Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts


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