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May 21, 2021 8:00 pm
The apostle Paul wrote to Timothy, a pastor in Ephesus: “I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression” (1 Timothy 2:12-14). In the following chapter, Paul spells out that the pastoral role is reserved for men.
Because we’ve already seen the consequences of churches ordaining women and the inexorable march toward theological liberalism it guarantees, we titled last week’s program: Why Rick Warren Ordaining Three Female Pastors Assures Evangelicalism’s Doom. No doubt many other Evangelical churches will follow suit.
This weekend, we’ll finish laying the foundation for the differing roles God established for men and women in the church and home. Then, Pastor Travis Allen of Grace Church in Greeley, CO will join us to answer what roles women can serve the church and what leads to Christian leaders compromising on the clear teaching of Scripture.
Why do Christian leaders compromise that is a topic we discussed today. Right here on the Christian worldview radio program. The mission is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ. I'm David with the host and her website is the Christian worldview.thank you for joining us today in the program. Last week we discussed how well known evangelical pastor Rick Warren in the church that he leads Saddleback had for the first time ordain three women to be pastors. Warren called it in his store at night and prefaced his message by saying everything they do is based on Scripture. Tonight is a historic night were going to ordain our first three women pastors but we don't do anything without a biblical basis so I'm gonna run through this really quickly. You know that I'm at a speed through this when I have already filled in the blanks on some of will base our practices on popular opinion or what culture tells us to do that really matter what any other church does what any other organization other.
We don't base our practices on man-made traditions. Jesus said it's useless to worship me.
If you replace what God commands with your own made-up rules, Matthew 59 we based not just on leadership but we base everything we do all of our practices on the authority of Scripture. The apostle Paul wrote to Timothy, who was a pastor in Ephesus at the time.
I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet, for it was Adam who was first created and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression is from first Timothy two verses 12 through 14 in the very next chapter. First Timothy three, Paul spells out that the pastoral role is reserved for men. Now I need to make a correction from last week because I mentioned in the soundbite. We played by Rick Warren that he never got to these key passages from first Timothy, but then I realized that I was only able to hear a three or four minute clip of this ordination service and so I looked online for the video including Saddleback's website, but couldn't find the video of this ordination service will have no idea whether he addressed first Timothy two and three in his message, or how he reimagined or misinterpreted that. But back to the issue at hand because you've already seen the consequences of churches ordaining women in the mainline denominations any inexorable march toward theological liberalism. It guarantees we titled last week program why Rick Warren ordaining three female pastors assures evangelicalism's doom. No doubt many other evangelical churches will now follow suit. This weekend will finish laying the foundation for the differing roles God established for men and women in the church in the home then pastor Travis Allen of Grace Church in Greeley, Colorado will join us to answer what roles women can serve in the church and what leads to Christian leaders compromising on the clear historic and orthodox teaching of Scripture were not going to have time to review what we covered last week. So if you missed it, be sure to go to our website the Christian worldview.org were going to start, we left off last week and then get to the interview with pastor Travis Allen first Corinthians 14. Now Paul is writing to the Corinthians, their church and he says when you assemble as a church.
Each one is a Psalm is a teaching is a revelation as a tongue has an interpretation woke in the tongues right now. Verse 34.
It says about women in the church. The women are to keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves just as the law also says if they desire to learn anything, let them ask your own husbands at home for it is improper for a woman to speak in church, was it from you with the word of God first went forth, or has it come to you only other words, don't make this up, you didn't design the word of God the Word of God comes from God. It's his word talks about women speaking in church a means woman preaching or teaching over men in church. There are roles for women to teach other women in church or teach children church but not men not to exercise authority over men.
So what we make of this will first of all, women as pastors and teachers of men has nothing to do with the worth of a woman, or the capability of a woman in comparison to men. It's also not a male versus female issue, but it's rather is more said it's a biblical interpretation or authority issue mean there are some men out there that are in favor of women becoming pastors and churches, and there are some women I'm sure some are listening today who are agreeing with everything that's being read from Scripture. Some women are against it. This is not a male versus female issue. It has everything to do with what God has clearly stated in his word. It's the same old issue from the very beginning of time when Satan tempted Eve and the guy in the garden has God really said that's really what's going on here. God has really said that men should be pastors and churches and leaders in the home.
That's what God is really said and now people like Rick Warren and many others are challenging, that it really is the word of God versus the word of man, God established roles for each gender in the home and the church so that they would function in an orderly and God honoring way.
No. No surprise that on the website. Got questions.org which is a website that answers people's questions about Christianity and other religious topics. There been something like over 500,000 questions asked on this website. And yet, the number one question is the number one question of all the questions is what does the Bible say about women pastors, but the number one question on got questions that are of all the hundreds of thousands of questions goes right back to Genesis 3, where God says to Eve, your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you right there from the very beginning.
The consequence of their sin was that there be a desire for a wife to rule over her husband and return the husband would often rule in a way that was over authoritarian the conflict from the very beginnings number one question on got questions.org so in their answer to this question. The answer some of the common challenges to the issue of men only being pastors of churches and holding authority in the church in the home and the first one is just the why question why shouldn't women teaching the church at performing art men and women the same. Why shouldn't they teach. Here's their answer. Why should women not teach or have authority over men because Adam was created first, then Eve and Adam was not the one deceived. It was the woman who was deceived versus 13 to 14 God created Adam first, and then created you to be a helper for Adam. The order of creation has universal application in the family and in the church so this is in a cultural contextual issue of the day that women were educated at the time and now they are and so we live in a different time and Paul was writing to Timothy at an age where it's very different from today and now were more sophisticated were advanced we've evolved and therefore women can be pastors and teachers of men in churches that is not at all what the interpretation, the proper grammatical historical interpretation of Scripture is in this passage Paul takes it not back to the context of that day in Ephesus, but he goes right back to the very beginning of time that God created Adam first, and then even the second reason is that Eve was the one he was tempted and fell into transgression first. That is the basis that God gives for why men only should be leaders in the church in the home.
The next objection.
They deal with is the one well there were females who were leaders in the Old Testament. What about them dozen that would not apply to the church and women becoming pastors in the church.
Are there exceptions yet another objection is in the relation to women who held positions of leadership in the Bible. Specifically, Miriam, Deborah, and hold it in the Old Testament. It is true that these women were chosen by God for special service to him and that they stand as models of faith, courage, and yes, leadership. However, the authority of women in the Old Testament is not relevant to the issue of pastors in the church.
The New Testament epistles present a new paradigm for God's people. The church body of Christ, and that paradigm involves an authority structure unique to the church now for the nation of Israel, or any other Old Testament entity.
And that's exactly right. Old Testament Israel and their theocracy is a completely different entity than the church is sort of like what we sometimes like to do that than the nation of Israel, as compared to modern-day America is not the same at all. Another some principles are the same for obedience to God of a nation brings blessing and disobedience brings consequence. Yes, but these women who lead in the Old Testament that they mentioned that is not relevant to how God specifically set up the authority structure of the church in the home. The article and got questions.org goes on to say. Similar arguments are made using Priscilla and Phoebe in the New Testament in acts 18 Priscilla and Tukwila man and wife are presented as faithful ministers for Christ Priscilla's name is mentioned first, perhaps indicating that she was more prominent in ministry than her husband did Priscilla and her husband teach the gospel of Jesus Christ to Apollo's. He was a strong believer at the time. Will became one. Yes in their home. They quote explained to him the way of God more adequately.
Unquote acts 1826. Does the Bible ever say that Priscilla pastored a church or taught publicly or became the spiritual leader of a congregation of Christians are saints. No, as far as we know, Priscilla was not involved in ministry activity in contradiction to first Timothy two verses 11 through 14 in Romans 16, got questions goes on to say, Phoebe is called a deacon or servant in the church and is highly commended by Paul, but as with Priscilla, there is nothing in Scripture to indicate that Phoebe was a pastor or a teacher of men in the church quote able to teach is given as a qualification for elders but not for deacons and we read that passage earlier so that the common question becomes will what can women do in the church can they only be church secretaries or just do nothing in the church because it's gotta be a patriarchal men's world with your cell got questions answers that question. Many women excel in gifts of hospitality, mercy, teaching, evangelism, and helps much of the ministry of the local church depends on women, women of the church are not restricted from public praying or prophesying the Bible nowhere restricts women from exercising the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Women just as much as men are called to minister to others to demonstrate the fruit of the spirit and proclaim the gospel to the lost. So can women be pastors or preachers. No, according to the Bible. Women are not allowed to service pastors, government that does not change the fact that God uses women in powerful and amazing ways to accomplish great things in the kingdom of God.
That is exactly right. Again, this is an issue of men are more important than women or web men in the church are more important than women in the church know they have different roles not established by us, but the church structure is established by God and is recorded in his word so women can do many important roles in the church they can teach they can teach other women they can teach children they can serve as deacons, deacons, different than elder is lots of ways for women to use the spiritual gifts God has given them within the church, just not as a pastor having authority over men and not as teaching men we see once this Rubicon has been crossed of ordaining women as pastors and teachers over men in in the in the church is the gateway to further compromise. Just as the church's evangelical church is now compromised on the issue of divorce and remarriage. They don't hold to the biblical.
Most of them don't hold to the biblical standards for that the grounds for divorce and remarriage or to the modern notion of let's say a couple living together before marriage or sex outside of marriage, they don't really look the other way on that today.
This is helped pave the way to get to this particular issue of women in pastoral leadership in the church. The other issue that's been long forgotten is the issue of church discipline is laid out in Matthew 18 that's another one that churches evangelical churches just avoid today, to the detriment of the church.
So there's this overemphasis on grace and a under emphasis or a compromise on truth and that doesn't work out.
Now all you have to do is look at churches who have integrated women into teaching roles and places of authority. Pastoral authority and to see what their doctrines become the mainline Protestant denominations alter into they have all kinds of female pastors are own to social justice. No gospel homosexuality transgender is him whatever liberal often politically liberal issue of favorite issue of the day, so it's important to of more to come, except that women do these things is that you compromise Scripture on these things and just opens the floodgates for more of the same Christian worldview.
David Wheaton returns in just a moment.
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Now back to today's program with host David Wheaton nutcase.
You think were just picking on Pastor Rick Warren. I read a series of social media posts from Pastor Tom Bock who is the pastor of a First Baptist Church of Lindale and also the director of the G3 expository workshops and he listed out around Mother's Day what was going on with not just Rick Warren's church, ordaining three female pastors but was going on all over the Southern Baptist convention. He writes the Southern Baptist convention is in the liberal drift evidenced by the proliferation of women pastors and preachers. He says the three largest SBC churches elevation Church Fellowship Church in Saddleback, Rick Warren has all have women pastors several SBC churches have women preaching yesterday on Mother's Day.
Here's some that I found Beth Moore priest yesterday at Lake point in Rockwall, Texas. It's an SBC church.
The pastor of Lake point is a graduate of Southern seminary second Baptist Houston had and grandma lots preach elevation Church, another well-known evangelical Southern Baptist Church had a woman preach yesterday Fellowship Church regular has leased a young preach she led Mother's Day services pastor Stacy would priest yesterday at Echo church and has regularly done that for years. Kay worn the wife of Rick Warren priest yesterday at Saddleback. He goes on to say, this is Tom Bock the SBC church name First Baptist Church in Newport News Virginia had for women preaching yesterday and is plainly stated on their website that they ordaining women point Community Church in Somerset had a woman preaching this past Sunday.
Eden church that recently had lead pastors, husband-and-wife preachers for a few Sundays ago, so this is not just taking place at Rick Warren's church Saddleback church with his taking place in many Southern Baptist churches around the country and also other denominations as well that were commonly associated with evangelicalism.
Just one more note on Beth Moore.
She's been a very popular Bible teacher. She was part of the Southern Baptist convention life way bookstores owned by the SBC promoted her book. She made millions off and now she just recently left the Southern Baptist convention. Is she someone who hates Donald Trump she subsides with the social justice movement. She preaches at churches over men. She's already backpedaled on homosexuality in one or more of her books so you can is wait for more of the same from someone like Beth Moore who is impacted so many evangelical women in this country and around the world. So let's get back to the title of the program why Rick Warren ordaining three female pastors assures evangelicalism's doom. You might say it's an overstatement, but it's really not using Cove.
It is bad physical virus. Will this is like a doctrinal virus that is infecting evangelical churches all over the country. Evangelicalism and America's doom yes doom is cemented. If evangelical churches continue compromising with the world.
That's exactly what this is and the only so-called vaccine for this is for these pastors to repent and follow God as he is clearly written in his word.
This is a larger issue than some of the big news of the day the great reset or whatever else is going on in the world you. The Bible spends very little time detailing your chronicling the wickedness of unsaved rulers and their their satanic inspired schemes were to be aware of them. We see some of it in Scripture. But the Bible spends all kinds of time in the New Testament focusing on false doctrines. False teachers within the church because God knows that those false doctrines. These false teachers impact people's souls that keep them from hearing the true gospel and in turn, when the church is not salt and light. The consequences of that is that you have a society of populists who is irreverent toward God. They are not anchored to the truth of the word of God in all chaos breaks loose in society. So all the crazy things going on in our society right now. He really goes back to the fact that the church based and founded on the word of God has lost its influence to the culture around us because the church is compromised on the word of God and why this spells doom for evangelicalism's that other evangelical churches are going to follow suit to Saddleback church.
That's how it works with the big churches do they the other churches, the midsize church is a small church as they watch what they do on on social media. They watch their messages and their services on Facebook and YouTube and so forth may say, look, look at Rick Warren and Saddleback are doing this is what's making them successful. This is why they have so many campuses and so many people. What are their quote best practices and that's how these things again like a virus just move around the country. In all these churches and before long, this infection is everywhere.
It sure to follow. And then he evangelical movement will become liberal just like the mainline denominations. Okay, so now were going to transition from why ordaining female pastors assures evangelicalism's doom to answer the question why do Christian leaders compromise like this and when we considered this question. Pastor Travis Allen as a guest came to mind.
He is someone who stands for the truth of the word of God in a very uncompromising way and he has a very deep understanding of the church and how God designed it to be led and to operate earlier in his life. Travis served our country as a Navy seal and now he is the senior pastor of Grace Church in Greeley, Colorado. Travis, thank you for coming on the Christian worldview today as we get into part two of this follow-up really to the news that Pastor Rick Warren of Saddleback Church has just ordained three women to be pastors and we've already discussed that the biblical basis for for men being pastors and teachers in the church leaders in the home is this issue Travis of female pastors is a state a first priority category issue.
I would think retitle the program last week. You know why dispels evangelicalism's doom is that to apocalyptic exists as big as that is issue as baby were making it out to be. I think that we need to acknowledge your view of women in the ministry is is not a gospel issue in the sense of will you be saved by having the right view of women in ministry or will you be denied entrance into the kingdom because you have the wrong view of women's ministry that we are obviously say no not talking about the deity of humanity of Christ without argument or justification by faith, the authority of Scripture and yet we are talking about it even though it can be. Maybe a second level or third level issue. But what they what they practice on the second level issue will reveal really what they believe, on the first level issue like the authority of Scripture, and what they practice on the second level issue shapes the way they think about first level issue and so when you practice ordaining women into the pastor you've really crossed the line that if that is going to shape effect and probably reveal what you believe about the authority of the Bible. Yes, the Bible may say first Timothy 212 Paul says I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man. Bible may say that but people who don't want to believe that practice that will set that aside and so they demonstrate they really don't line up under the authority of Scripture and so you got a question if they don't practice it.
What are they really believe about Travis, why does ordaining female pastors we've seen in the mainline denominations always seem to lead to compromise on other issues like sexual issues homosexuality transgender is on the mainline denominations are fully in favor of that.
Now integrating in the churches. It ultimately leads away from a focus on the saving Gospel of Christ salvation issues to more social justice. Why does it always seem to be that same progression it's connected to the question you just asked about first and second order issues. If you equivocate on obedience to what the Bible clearly says in one issue where you draw the line and start obeying and other issues. When you give ground and compromise and the culture continues to pressure you toward a toward a complete compromise and a complete complete abandonment and ultimately apostasy from Scripture so this is this is come out and out in a hermeneutical debate. It was in 1991 Piper Groom general editors for recovering Biblical manhood and womanhood and they were responding then to evangelical feminism in 2004 of response was published about call discovering biblical equality and the subtitle was complementarity without hierarchy, so the editors all that all the authors.
The article in our articles in that book there responding and pushing back against Piper and Gruden there so calling themselves complementarity. It's an yet they were not complementarity so they were going under the banner complement during this and just like Rick Warren said to be pushed by the culture were not to follow tradition were totally biblical with the biblical basis for everything we do as of these authors are saying as well. And yet there compromising on the issue of women in ministry. William Webb wrote a couple of articles in that volume, introducing something called the redemptive movement hermeneutic. He since published a book in 2009, called slaves, women and homosexuals exploring the hermeneutics of cultural analysis without getting in the weeds of that is describing. We need to see the Bible more as a dynamic movement kind of the text rather than static and to read the Bible that way and to develop our ethics. That way, so it's kind of on a sliding scale is the culture moves that's exactly what you hear in the in the constitutional debates of the U.S. Constitution is a static text that we are tech should listen. We read the we read that text as the authors intended or do we continue to let it develop, and let it be dynamic and read it treated with with a view to the changes in the culture. So that's that. That same thing happened happening in constitutional law and interpretation happens. Also, first, probably in the Scripture as well, since such a high profile pastor and churches done this. Do you expect this to spread throughout evangelicalism now this current cultural Tidal Wave is been hitting the churches for decades, got into the Protestant mainline denominations. Even when Albert Mohler became president of Southern seminary in 1993. It was part of a conservative resurgence to push back at exactly against these issues in the Southern Baptist convention, here we are. Several decades later.
It's the same issue hitting the Southern Baptist convention. The entire culture so it's it's yes it's spreading. It's in the continue to spread or it'll be just this persistent push toward compromise to call all people to line up underneath the radical liberal ideology that says any constraint on any individual is that that really is what marks something as simple something that must be shunned and done away with. I think that we as evangelicals shouldn't so quickly give up the term evangelical. I think we should become more emboldened at this time to say when when the church practices ordaining women to the pastor. Let's refuse to call them evangelicals any longer. Let's let's just say we are, well, you're now outside the camp. Yeah, I do think the skin to contain the spread Travis Allen with us today on the Christian worldview. The senior pastor of Grace Church in Greeley, Colorado. I want to just give you a few scenarios that have been brought up with ordaining women to be pastors, can a woman be a quote pastor of children's ministries you sort women's ministries, or are there circumstances Travis where a woman can teach a man in church like in a Sunday school class. We've had that question by a listener or maybe on a special day like Mother's Day which a lot of these women preaching that that occurred on Mother's Day or with her husband who is a pastor in the pulpit talk about some of those scenarios that often get use that are exceptions to this are used as exceptions in the cases, a woman who serving in children's ministries or women's ministries.
Let's just let them serve in those capacities, but don't don't assign the title pastor because pastor has a very specific meaning biblically and qualifications biblically laying on the hands of some of those who ordained into that role in the church it's it's very specific so when you sign the title pastor to a woman whose showing leadership in children's ministries right women's ministries that completely confuses the biblical meaning in the apostolic intention. So let's let's not confuse our people by by calling that woman a pastor that she doesn't need a title and she doesn't need recognition as a pastor in order to be a dearly beloved saint and servant of the church. There are some cases where people just aren't thinking biblically. They're just not thinking well when they allow a woman to give an address on Mother's Day or something like that may rise from sentimental or a good intention. That's not biblical.
Faithful, the Bible does allow that if it's a public gathered assembly of the saints on the Lord's day. That's preaching that's proclaiming the word of God that are to be reserved as the Bible says, for man. I don't permit woman to teach or exercise authority man weathered soap on Mother's Day or whether it's Sunday school classroom in a gathered assembly of the saints.
There is private ministry of women.
Women who theologically not worship similar to church Christian worldview. David Wheaton returns in just a moment with a growing and aggressive segment of our society in full throated opposition to God in biblical Christianity. The question has become. How can Christians stand firm and raise their children to do the same. Can hand the founder and president of answers in Genesis, least a compelling book titled, will they stand parenting kids to face the Giants Ken's life and ministries a model of standing firm in the authority of God's word and the gospel shares personal experiences in biblical principles that have shaped for a limited time will they stand for donation of any amount to the Christian world 312 pages, hardcover, and retails for 1999 go to the Christian worldview.org or call 1888 646-2233 right to Box 401, Excelsior, MN 55331. Be sure to take advantage of two free resources that will keep you informed and sharpen your world. The first is the Christian worldview, weekly email which comes to your inbox each Friday contains the upcoming ring along with me to read articles teacher resources special events in the previous program. Second is the Christian worldview, annual letter, which is delivered to your mailbox in November contains a year-end letter from host, David Wheaton had a listing of our store items including DVDs, children's materials and you can sign up for the weekly email and annual letter by visiting the Christian worldview.calling 18 646-2230 through your email and mailing address will never be sure you can unsubscribe at any time. Call one AAA 646-2233 or visit Christian world.thanks for joining us on the Christian worldview. Just a reminder that today's program and pass programs are archived at our website. Christian worldview.org are also available and be sure to share with others.
Now back to today's program with host David Wheaton record talked about the process that they had been discussing it with his elder board. They were unanimous agreement to ordain female pastors of their church, Rick Warren.
I don't know them personally.
All that I find for what he does in his level of influence in the number of satellite campuses. He manages us at Saddleback.
This man as I was a very intelligent I'm sure he's been well schooled in church history, and he certainly knows this issue. I he's not new in ministry. He's been around for a long time. Can you explain what what the process do you think was of someone like Rick Warren making this decision well into his ministry career, so to speak to all the sudden ordain female pastors we will why compromise now what what what goes into that it's over. It's very difficult for me to understand understand that no limit limit despicable things about Rick Warren and that you know what you revealed on your last program you played a clip of Rick Warren in front of his church where they were going to enter into that ordination service and then you also read from one of the women who was ordained, who described her surprise in getting the call that she was going to be ordained if we can take all that at face value. I just gotta say it's come it's completely appalling that a woman would be told now that she's can be announced as has just as a total surprise, she's can be announced to be one of the first three women to be ordained Saddleback Church at shocking I am.
We been going through with a couple of men here in our own church and ordination process and these men have known for a year or more. Both of them that they are being considered for ordination.
They been practicing ministry all along we've been examining them talking to them. We been getting to know them, their wives, their families, we are going through right now. Ordination councils six hours of examination on biblical understanding biblical knowledge, systematic theology, church history, and practical theology. Those are all categories of of questions intense questioning. We have with these men and preparing them for an ordination service so there's no surprise. No shock this woman that you read the quotation from public always surprised Jen knowing this was coming. It seems to indicate that this is writing a cultural wave that's kind of been Rick Warren's ammo all along is he's gone, the seeker around 10 it's just been a pattern of compromise after compromise that led to what Isaac is inevitable departure from ortho proxy and I think is affecting his orthodoxy, they would lease up surprising to me, though saddening, but it would be surprising if he continues to drift leftward and we see them compromising on the bigger issues Travis Allen with us today in the Christian will be the senior pastor of Grace church in Greeley, Colorado, and I really encourage you to to hear his sermons by going to their website Grace Greeley.org really spell GR EE LEY grace Greeley.org. Now I was thinking Travis about some of the dynamics that that lead to compromise. There is the fear of man that there is just pure pressure from the culture from other pastors. There is the fear of rejection by by by someone by if we don't go with this.
If we look outdated. We look patriarchal. There is the fear persecution. If we hold to a biblical line so so there's that there's a there's a fear of man rather than having a fear of God, we fear what will be done to us. If you're there meant that Lisa compromise number two. What else can lead to compromise the desire for a bigger ministry.
You may be someone think this is going to.
By doing this, this is going to but not make us look so narrow were going to be working to be more in the mainstream. This is going to enlarge our our ministry or just conversely that they look compromise because it is a concern for the diminishing of their ministry if they don't let that go along with the cultural wave on this particular issue another and another one like it certainly what else leads to people. The compromise is that you seen this often where there's an influence from may be the leader who compromises they have a personal friend or maybe their wife or their daughter or their son or or someone in their life who is close to them who seemingly has a bigger influence on them emotionally experientially than then then the word of God does talk about those one of those three are of two of those three. How those those things need to be really forcefully pushed back and we feel those things in our lives. You covered the ground. There really well I think I think those are very good, good way of breaking down what leads to compromise. If we were to wrap all that up though, and the one concept it's it's asked the question.
Do you fear whom do you regard more than anyone else whose word we listen to whose approval do you seek to fear God, or do you fear man and I thinking in all those scenarios that you just listed as what Lisa compromise. I think the fear of man. Fear of God is the issue you seen that in the church growth seeker movement throughout the 80s and 90s into the 2000's, that that was a fear of man movement they sent out surveys tell us what you what you want in a church, tell us what you sermons you want to hear tells what topics we should be covering you set the agenda for us. Why are they doing it all again your your comment about desire for a bigger ministry. In today's world with the with the sexual revolution in the way that all the UL 40 and unders are thinking about the world thinking about sexual ethics and everything else. The message of Christianity, of what the Bible actually teaches is so radically unpopular.
It's it's not just quaint anymore it outdated now it's it's dangerous now that is that is making people feel unsafe and so if you try to hold onto big ministry in the contract. A lot of people while the new gotta fear man. You got to follow what the people do what they want.
Same thing comes into play in personal relationships. It's I think of Deuteronomy 13 where it says if you're your spouse or your son or your daughter or any of your relations say to you, hey, let's follow for God, your hand should be the first to stone them as you bring them before the community for examination for leading people into idolatry. If your spouse or your son or your daughter leaves you into idolatry. Your and has to be the first to throw the stone that's that's shocking. But what that passage is revealing at O'Reilly 13 is that God wants us to fear him above all others. The lack of the fear of God and in a in a nation as David Wells has so clearly said for many years now.
The weight of God falls too lightly on the church is God is there, but he's he's toothless, God is there, but he's he's powerless. He's like a benign grandfathering when that is the predominant view in so many churches when that's the vision of God that they're being given in the pulpit through the preaching wild and nobody fears that God nobody fears that false represent misrepresentation of God really and so of course are going to fear everyone else there to prove the culture of the fear reputation there in a fear of relation loss of relationship and all the rest. Travis let me add just one more that I didn't include in that last and it comes from first John two as to why do professing Christian leaders compromise absolutely, and this was John says children.
It is the last hour and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared. From this we know that it is the last hour. Verse 19 they went out from us, but they were not really of us. For if they had been of us, they would have remained with us, but they went out so that it would be shown that they all are not of us. That's in first John 29 want to be quick to say I'm not calling Rick Warren and antichrist are some pastor who is taking on un-biblical stance on this issue antichrist but there is that in Scripture that this is not just the one reference it's Paul's warning Timothy and Titus and note you see all throughout the New Testament as a warning about false teachers coming in. How was that elements a a very real possibility of all of what takes place inside professing Christian leadership. The world is is obviously going to continue to drift and antichrist direction. I mean all John said. Already, many antichrists have come, and is pointing ahead to the pinnacles of antichrist spirit that's connected and well inhabited by the indwelling of Satan, the actual antichrist who is going to try to revive her leadership of the world.
If we acknowledge that the spirit of antichrist. Is there that's in the world and that's that's permeated the entire world and all all this all the sons of the devil and the children of darkness are under his influence continually you know they breathe in the spirit without the air. It's understandable that the spirit of antichrist is going to make try to make inroads into the church all the time to me know through false converts through false professors even all said acts chapter 20 below there will be even men who rise up within the eldership, Pierce wolves, not sparing the flock that will happen among men who have been ordained in eldership that you've respected for a long time and something will come out later so I think were just always the church always has to be on its guard to see to to be discerning and to discern the spirit of the age and how the spirit of antichrist is entering into its ranks. I think that's one of the most difficult things for we as Christians to understand when we see a Christian leader who has been in ministry for a long time, who is said many Orthodox things over there ministry career whose written books. We've done their Bible studies and so forth. And then to realize that way where they go off that to realize that even though they've taught some truthful things over the years that they can actually be one of these false teachers, leading people away from the truth of God's word in the gospel. I think it's very hard for our minds to process, but there it is in the Bible over and over and over again so we really shouldn't start out by making assumptions because you know we read someone's book 10 years ago that person's going and well and in that they truly possess genuine saving faith Travis Allen with us today here on the Christian review just the final question for you Travis is your exhortation for people listening today. We talked about Christian leaders compromising to be fair, they obviously have a lot of pressure on them when you're leadership ahead of her church or an organization.
There's a lot of pressure to compromise biblical convictions, but that's the case for really all Christians. There is the in our own lives in people who are unknown by the broader country or church. So what is your exhortation as we close today for a Christian listening that how they that person can stand strong stand firm on their biblical convictions and not compromise great question and I just encourage everyone listening to get into a sound sound local church where there are no longer will Christians just doing private Bible study and staying strong.
They need to be a member of a vibrant sound faithful local church and what I mean by that is that there is a deep, constant expository ministry of preaching, of preaching God's word that if that is weak. It's going to make a whole host of the week Christians that are going to be on discerning and wide open for being kicked off by the enemy.
So when I say expository preaching. I'm not talking about preaching a chapter or two of the Bible in doing that consecutively over weeks in about half hour chunks consistent expository ministry you had a pastor who is spending 15 2025 hrs. a week going into the exegetical details of the text. What the what the words mean how the grammar is usually syntactical script structure the text.
The context context context and he is mining out from that text what God is actually put there and he's bringing that out is is doing hard speed work in the text and then doing equally difficult work to understand the implications that text for his people to help them to apply it to understand how it works in daily life. Understand something that spoken in a culture 2000 years ago to understand the print to principal as a text, and then help us understand how to project their own time in our own culture. Yes, to understand the tone and tenor of the tax names get us, please get a preach exhortation to us to exhort his congregation to obedience and speak prophetically to his people and to the world. In addition to that, in the church there to be a deep pursuit of the knowledge of God and studying and rejoicing in systematic theology and the doctrinal meaning of the Scripture solicit a pastor, a leadership church together can only do that if the church believes deeply in the Bible is the divinely inspired and inerrant, authoritative, all sufficient Lord of the triune God. It is a beautiful text in second Corinthians 3 and forbidden in 413, Paul says, since we have the same spirit of faith, according to what is been written, I believed and so I spoke. We also believe, and so we speak. He says the reason for that is because verse 18 we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen things are seen are transient things that are unseen are eternal. So if the church believes in the word of the eternal living God and the church is not fear the Lord and obey what God has revealed there and so you're going to see not only what communication the pulpit and in the conversation of the church that they have honor God's word to see them on will pay it to so they can practice what's preached what's taught by following the truth, toward more and more consistent living out of the truth the practice the truth of the church in the home is a God in the world they want to obey God and why is that because they believe him because they fear God as an ulterior anyone else or anything else that is what people need to look for as they look for a faithful church that is just so well stated Travis. Thank you for foreclosing with that and I would just encourage listeners if you want to hear what that sounds like a church, a pastor who is digging deep mining out the truth of God's word and helping his congregation understand it, go to Travis's churches website Grace Greeley.org.
Listen to some of his sermons and you'll hear what that sounds like it may be you can encourage your own pastor to do more of that. If he's not doing enough of that. You can encourage them to do more again. Grace Greeley.org is the website Travis thank you for coming on the Christian worldview today. Thank you for being non-compromising in your own personal life and your preaching ministry the way you lead your church and we just wish all of God's best, and grace to you and your family and grace church in Greeley, Colorado. David, thank you so much and thank you likewise for your example of noncompromising as you do the Christian worldview radio programs such a blessing as discouraging as it can be to see so much compromise within the evangelical church, whether it's on this issue of ordaining women to be pastors or the homosexual issue or the race, or social justice. Critical race theory issue in a litany of others.
It's encouraging to hear from pastors like Travis Allen who are holding the line with Scripture as their authority may that be the same for all of us who profess to follow Christ. And if you're not a believer, you need to become a follower of Christ, and you can find out how to do that by going to our website the Christian worldview.org just click on the link to what must I do to be saved.
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