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Christian College... Really?

The Steve Noble Show / Steve Noble
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July 21, 2022 10:53 am

Christian College... Really?

The Steve Noble Show / Steve Noble

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July 21, 2022 10:53 am

Christian College... Really?

Steve talks to Dr. Renton Rathbun to talk about colleges and how they, even if “Christian” indoctrinate your children.

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The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network mobile show where biblical reality meets the everyday life in your home, at work, even in politics. Steve is an ordinary man who believes in an extraordinary God it on his show. There's plenty of grace and lots of true no sacred cows call Steve Bell 86 34 true 866-34-TRUTH or checking out online, Steve Noble now here's your host Steve Noble parent out there son or daughter goes to private Christian school dog bit me at a high school middle school even younger. That or they go to a prestigious Christian University. I want you to take a big long reach and stretch your right hand out and then reached back behind you yourself on the back is getting killed back on the back back there. Awesome job you can essentially retire go on vacation. Everything is and be fine because as long as there at a Christian school be at high school. Other or otherwise were Christian college liberty University of the Ozarks Larry Pickett Viola calling out to the West Coast, then everything is fine or is that a painfully ignorant position to take. And just because they have a cross on top of the building and it's a good avenue that they have like a David as their mascot, the case may be, and I'm not throwing every single Christian school under the bus.

Some of them deserve to be thrown under the bus, and many of them, if not most of them I'd like to think are well-meaning just because your kid goes to a Christian school. Does that mean they're actually getting a true Christian education, whether that's at the college level or high school and under and that's a question that, especially as this culture continues to go darker and further to the left and further away, and aggressively so from any notion of a biblical worldview.

Just hanging out in the crowd where it seems to be safe isn't good enough, especially for our children, our sons and daughters as they get pushed out of this world. They have to be a little more equipped than they used to be. And so that's the question today on theology Thursday with her friends at BJ use seminaries was Bob Jones University Dr. Renton Rathbone back in the house is the director of the Center for biblical worldview at BJ Hydro body.

So I want to dig into your personal experience a little bit because you've taught in the secular world as well as in the Christian world so so from your experiences in the secular secular world Renton was that look like there.

I mean, I often times I think we assume if we send our kids off to a secular college there just we might as well throw them over and burn them in front of Molex, but what's that like there in terms of the inculcation of something other than a Christian worldview and will switch and talk about Christian colleges and in schools because they're not all the same. Okay will. What's interesting is that I think the reason why a lot of people are taking their children out of public high schools is because the worldview has become so blatant and so loud you face so obviously I think the idea is if I then go to a secular university or college to be more neutral, there's a lot more a lot more neutral information. There might have a radical teacher and there will be okay. And the problem with that is that it's not that it's more neutral here is that the subtleties of the worldview are going to be a lot more pervasive so your you have someone yelling at your your kid that you know I hate Christians, I'm coming after you. It's more like I'm glad you're in my class. I'm excited you're here and I'm glad you have a face on your grave to have that now let's talk about my subject area and what is this Dale distance themselves from their face right and then Bill inculcate their view in the classroom where reality stands and its subtle is very effective and you may not even realize it's happening to you because of the precision that's used in getting to the students thinking right is not just a matter of doctrine being poured on them is actually changing the way they think about the world right and that's that that's the big trick here is having a conversation with a friend just the other day about what I do in my classes that I teach and I tell the students listen you guys are 15, 16, 17 years of age, you have an unbelievable amount of information coming at you on a daily basis from all kinds of directions. The vast majority of it is not a biblical worldview them and to be quite frank.

You guys lack both wisdom and discernment so your operating system isn't in good shape and so as all the stuff gets crammed into your computer.

You don't really know what's coming and you don't really have the ability to kinda pull out the falls from the true and comparative Christian worldview still have a good healthy operational system. We talked about this last time you were on Renton and I just shared the link for that because there's those kind of five different things going on in the secular environment that will lead your child away your son or daughter away from a Christian worldview. And you know that so many people there kids got to college after going to call they go to youth group go to church all that stuff and then after a few years at school. They come back and you like wall what what happened here and I think that something again when I can to rehash all that and I just shared the link for it on Facebook live so you guys can all check that out for yourself, but you have to understand what's going on out there, but today Rena turned the corner and kinda bring it into our own yard and talk about Christian education because just as good a Christian school doesn't mean you're getting a Christian education so they might say, you know, we teach a neutral subject or were learning in a Christian environment. We have spiritual events and like you guys down it down at BJ. Let me we have we have chapel once or twice a week. We have small groups that all sounds great but is that enough.

Yeah, I mean if you if you begin to think that a biblical worldview is limited to chapel and to extracurricular activities. You really could go to a secular school get hooked up with a Christian group on campus right have your own types of chapel of your own extracurricular activities that are very Christian and in the classroom then remains you know close to the neutral right and sometimes that even happens on Christian campus where people believe that or even professors believe they really are teaching something that is what we would call a neutral subject that has neutral content that you know whether your at so-and-so community college or blah blah Christian college, everyone has to know how to do their formulas and write on the map. Anger know how to do you know how to have good writing skills.

Econ 1019 communications whatever really and there are some schools out there and festers really don't see how their subject area really does fit worldview.

Some of them think that worldview is something that you stop your learning.

For a moment to have a little devotional learning and then go back to your right right exactly and convinces all your students that the Bible is nothing right exactly right. And so now you're divorcing the realities of the real world from your faith, which is going to cause a problem for your student on down the road because that will continue in their lives. What is a real Christian education what the composed that will be right back back sociology Thursday with our friends and seminary as well as Bob Jones discussing a Christian education. Any Christian colleges, just as your son or daughter, grandson, granddaughter goes off to a Christian school. It's funny everything is good now let's let's just hang back. Let's hang back and watch a show on Disney plus and I can't do that anymore. I watch a show on Netflix and I can't do that anymore, just chill or whatever, read your Bible worry about it. There the Christian schools. Everything is fine, but that's not necessarily true. So the question you have to ask yourself isn't should I send my kid to a Christian school. It's what can a Christian school.

Should I send them to. And do you even know there's a difference for the Christian school in a Christian education.

So that's why were always excited that Dr. rent Rathbun back in the house of Dir. of the Center for biblical worldview. Bob Jones University, but typically on this type of subject redness is great.

Such an important topic as people are specially peopled with children and grandchildren, especially in high school, college, that can age range understanding that there's a difference between a Christian college in a Christian education right to me that there they can be two very different things.

Yes that's right. Christian college should be something like you know if you like the state University, but you want a wholesome environment come here right yeah you know we we may not get into the depths of Google worldview critical thinking work, but still be able to talk about Jesus.

On paper without getting in trouble and will and will have lots really cool Christian rock bands for you if that's if that's your idea of a Christian college. That's one thing, but I think I think in the war we are working here that we are fighting right now we don't need a Christian college to be a vacation for for kids. Yeah that's right needs to be a place where they actually grow in the depths in their hearts but also in their minds of the depths and the barrettes of God's word and how that applies. In reality, every aspect of life. Yeah when you look at it that way. That is such a comprehensive perspective, a comprehensive worldview in your worldview really is a very effective if it doesn't speak comprehensively that you can't overlay it on all of life, then it's a weekend thing or Sunday thing or Monday night Bible study thing is not.

It is not all encompassing thing a biblical worldview should be all encompassing. You literally should be able to overlay it.

So when you talk about your Christian reality how you live your life. Not that were talking about being devoid of sin we all struggle with that. But the setting of a you know is is your Christianity and aspect of your life or is that the epicenter of your life and in things flow out of it or you can go in and out of it so hot yet disappointed, and I shared the blog post today as well. I want to Christian education essentially clipped through these three things are quick to make sure everybody understands, the nuts and bolts of what a true Christian education are ducking out Christian education, not just this is a Christian college but what is a Christian education.

The first on biblical reality which are alluding to embedded in the curriculum and in the teaching of that curriculum so again you mentioned before Renton.

Hey, we use the neutral textbook yet understand is no such thing as a neutral textbook because it was written by somebody with a world right yet so you if you think that if you think textbook is going to just dump data into your lab. No textbook would get published textbooks get published when the data is uniquely communicated that uniqueness is what gets that book published uniqueness is going to be the longest view of what the publishing company thinks is a good view to have right and if you're talking about a secular worldview. That's what you can have because we don't know when we talk about it said like an overlay of the world and that's kind of you know we got to see how comprehensive, that really is because data does not just slap you on the brain.

We confront data with our mind and have to interpret data right. There's nothing that can that is that leaves that's left not to be interpreted so the minute you interpret something it has to be against the way you see the world and people communicate data in the same way they communicated to you in the way they see reality shaped guys going out of their worldview and it needs to be filtered through your own.

But everybody's plan with the same thing.

We all have the worldview. That's the thing I keep reminding everybody he said the second point, the curriculum itself is based on the biblical reality and communicated as such. So when you say the biblical reality we mean by that.

So I have found that Christians and this is been happening over a long period of time Christians have become comfortable with the idea that we live in an already established reality that has been established by culture and established by cultural bullies that tell us what were supposed to believe things that you want to believe because you want to fit in, and then we can have God do all that and see what part of God's into apartment doesn't fit into and then God embarrasses us right so God seems to be very harsh about homosexuality and you don't feel that way because the culture that's different, so change these verses, so that God can be more moral like we are and you begin to see the Bible as an added thing to an already existing reality and what we need to do is reverse that entire way of thinking, how is it that as I am in the reality of God's word. I then can interpret right and that's why I want to things I talk about pretty often whether be here in the shower and classrooms just in conversation is the fact that I know because I have an operative bib worldview.

Every single human being in history the world has the same operating system in terms of the Amato day. The fact that were made. The image of God and then that that's the starting ground and then out of that you throw in the world, the flesh and the devil. The devil can't really create anything he just Mars and distorts and plays around with things and so I know what I'm doing when I watch people.

I watch the news, I'm seeing things happen.

I'm walking through a textbook or curriculum talking about a particular item. I know what I'm dealing with and I'm because I know where it came from itself. Like when we look at this third point, which is so powerful.

Every part of the students experience, including the classroom is understood through assessed by and produces a biblical worldview and I I think that's where we have a huge problem with a lot of our students going off to college as they don't really have a set strong operative biblical world there Christians.

They went to church there that the great sermons are all off at summer camp right now. Getting not enough sleep, and maybe given their life to Jesus Christ for the 15th time but but they don't have this kind of robust way of thinking it's biblical. I mean, that's right. And it's you know we get like you're saying you get these kids that have there constantly reminded about having a heart for the Lord and the Lord wants that heart and become very sincere and sometimes we as adults confuse our own kids with you know, demanding out of them. Hey, this is what the Lord says, and then the Holy Spirit within them. You know affects their heart. They repent and they have these moments of clarity.

Yeah then then what we do, we just leave them without training their mind of how then do I think or have we not trained their mind and then they become weak again in their mind, afraid that they need another variance to get them to the feeling of being okay with God's grace. Instead of strengthening their mind to think as God has taught us to think it is not just for the world are my work so you should write that down that that's a good one to not conform to the world. But, perhaps, be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Or as Francis Schaeffer once asked how should we then live. That's the big question will be right back.

You have a son or daughter that just graduated from high school.

[See no one Thursday with our friends at BJ's seminary Bob Jones University as well and they just graduated and that's that's awesome right but are you sending them off like a sheep to the slaughter. Are they ready for what's out there and again not. I would say very few colleges and very few college professors are to fit nicely into all rent and rent love the name of the Christian movie. God is not dead right and so you have this really obnoxious Kevin Sorbo who I think you referenced earlier is Hercules with Kevin Sorbo aggressive, intelligent, sharp and good-looking atheist Prof. this is going to slice and dice your kid in the ground. There are some of them out there like that. But even somebody like Bart Irvin here in that locally to me at University of Carolina is a is a pretty likable person and so the danger isn't in the.

The really obnoxious front the full frontal attack by the obnoxious atheist. The danger is much more subtle in its pervasiveness been going on since your kid was about five or six.

And whatever they're watching whatever the listening to the video games at their plane and then they go to college in the high school and college in the curriculum. Everything else. This is the slow burn because they're marinating in this stuff. They just don't know it, and because they don't have a fully functioning and well-developed and robust Christian worldview. You don't really have it you don't have a colander, everything's, coming through and going into your fridge, and the next thing you know you open your fridge and it's like hell coming at you know how that happened. Well it is a slow burn over long period of time. That's why today with Dr. and Rathbun were talking about was a Christian education look like. Just because it's a Christian college doesn't necessarily mean your son or daughter or your grandson or granddaughter is going to get a true biblical Christian education somewhere, pulling this apart again written. Thank you for bringing her expertise and experience of this. This is a super important topic that I don't think anybody gives enough time to strew and we know when we think about what Christian education is thinking about how you would solidify that simple sentence you say what is a Christian education. I think what we would say is a Christian education is is a lease for a student learning the skill of interpreting the world through the reality of the world is important understand it.

Reality of worldview, not as Christians. This is how we see the world as other people this way. We all have our little views. Yes, this and this is something another symbol on the coexists bumper sticker that you sometimes we talk that way we talk. As you know well their views different or they see another and I know were trying to be intelligent were trying to acknowledge that people have other world I get, but we don't live his being know the reality. Yes, that we don't have to apologize for reality. We don't have to leave room for other realities. But ours really is exterior worldview is real worldview and we gotta stop being afraid of saying yes on a beautiful summer day when you're down there in Greenville, South Carolina, burning up like you're on the race of the sign, or appear in Raleigh, North Carolina, beautiful blue day you walk outside and you're having your lunch or whatever and somebody walks up next to you and they say well the sky is just that's the most beautiful shade of pink I've ever seen and you look to the side and there like what are you trying to figure out what's up with this person.

Are they on drugs are they drunk, what's the deal because you know the reality is the sky is blue as soon as they say pink you know something's off because you realize that there actually is a reality Del Tackett focus on the family came up with the truth project years ago. It's really good and he has little this little saying that he uses all throughout. Do you really believe that what you say you believe is really real because of foundational Christian worldview. God defines reality so rent and when you look at that when you look at the world around us on a daily basis and do you ever say the place is crazy the world's crazy right because it is what what is crazy crazy being out of touch with reality what is reality reality is that which is true. Well, what is true. Okay, good question. Pontius Pilate Christian worldview to God defines reality.

Everything else is bogus. It's outside of it. It's a distortion of it or just an outright replacement know why Romans one and you know whenever we're together.

Romans one. Yes what's important about Romans one is. It reminds us that the unbeliever is not does not actually believe the lies that way no other words or something in him that knows the truth and he's suppressing the pressing and you can't suppress the truth without going a little crazy or sometimes a lot of praise you because you suppress reality with your unrighteousness, your unrighteousness that has to comfort you and be the bridge to the sanity think you have and you'll go crazy.

You get to the point where a woman will even be able to know what a woman is that's right because she's not a biologist and when I was listening earlier today, and this really courageous college. A female swimmer speaking out about all the crazy transgender stuff, and especially Melia Thomas at Penn and and at Penn. She knows some some girls are on the team. He's in the same locker room and so now they're literally telling these girls.

If you have a problem seeing male genitalia in the locker room I we suggest you speak to a counselor.

Oh well, that's is insanity. By definition, it's just crazy. So when we we go through this with him to go to these points. What Christian education does point number one develops biblical worldview skills in the classroom that did not direct the students away from the subject matter what you mean by that is that that's where I think we on his biblical worldview and then there's like Econ 101 different soap you're talking about math. If you want talk about conversion of metric units and so the conversion of metric units is on the table saying okay conversion can be defined as turning from one thing to another. You know when the Lord saved us. He turned us from sin to Santa for now back to metric unit that is not worldview that is because in the Bible story you yes and what you got as you convince the kids yet math is exactly the real question is, I was able to talk to a professor over it Redeemer University in Canada who has developed were worldview math.

Specific question is, what's a number they started with basic value is what we want to do is we don't want take math already in its history and its ideas and then try and bring over and say hey where did these things meet together but what we want is why start math in Scripture itself and asking that question. What is the number brings us to answer a question. The world hasn't answered so we started this idea of how do you answer the question.

What's the number and we came to Genesis 1 and two and saw how Adam was naming the animals and that was part of his image bearing of God imitate his God and he began to develop this idea that you know when we number is a name name by quantity so that we can model and why do we name by quantity so that we can model they God's command to subdue and rule over the years and that's the birthplace of math, yeah. It's in Genesis and so from there we we then moved from there into all the different groups in different ideas. But when you show them that there is this foundation where masses were were able to answer questions in the world has its convincing us clear to the not so when I do fun things like that by God's grace happening in my classrooms. You see the lights, because all of a sudden they taken these two worlds that they thought that were disparate that math Civics history. Whatever.

And then there Christian there Christianity over here and all of a sudden they're like oh I actually didn't know those things go together and that reality emanates out of the career reality which is God himself. So Maddie learned it's not only did they go together. Math isn't something that merely just clicks with the Bible. Math relies on the five and when you start realizing that the Bible really is sufficient to speak to everything in God's world. That's showing the power that's already in Scripture not giving powers Scripture Scripture is demonstrating its power appears to and what happens is, at least, this is happened for me and I think it's just labs. They happen for you is as it builds this strength intellectually which which builds the strength of your faith. And then when you see the world. I'm I don't shrink back from the world. I'm like hey listen up world I get you.

I know what's happening here. I'm not running around in the place on fire and I'm trying to figure out why I'm like actually there's all kinds answers for all the stuff and so we can lean into the world as a source of truth, as opposed to being afraid of the world because they have a competing truth claim to have a competing truth claim is have lives reality.

So when we come back replicas rate develop Google worldview assessments. I love that world word skills. I love that word will talk about that and this is interesting. One develop typical worldview skills that allow for cross pollination between diverse subject matter. This is really good stuff. You should probably listen to the show a couple times over and share with people. We all need to get a whole lot better at assessing what their kids will be right back over the Steve Noble show theology Thursday with our friends at BG youth seminary by judging as well today with Dr. Renton Rathbun is the director of the Center for biblical worldview and also teaches down there. By the way, so what classes are you teaching this fall semester. Dr. Rathbun I teaching a freshman course in Bible, God's whole creation, new creation, expand the entirety of Scripture to see the big metanarrative so we can see how our world fits into that school is that they don't like the only class you're teaching me what you do for work well world takes you out.

Are you done that's over tell the producer I'm gone about it all and I am teaching co-teaching a course at the seminary.

All in bioethics well I love. That's it. That's another one of those topics that God's word has a lot to say about bioethics now takes a little work because you Scripture wasn't written when we have cloning going on but bioethics because our intelligence and our knowledge bases far out past pacing her ethic so we got were all like Frankenstein. Now there's all kinds of things we can do monsters. We can create which to know what to do with every principle you need to make good decisions are there in Scripture. Even though Scripture is not a textbook for cloning. It isn't, it does tell us every principle we need to build a note that's right and that's it.

That's a great reason why people should go down those roads and I to talk about that stuff in my ethics class and that's just awesome to hear that you're teaching this summer working through what a Christian education does.

We talked about develop the biblical worldview skills in the classroom develop biblical worldview assessment assessment is so important that allows the student chance to practice the skill of worldview evaluation so talk about that because that's one of the biggest challenges I look this up. I don't know if it was earlier this year Renton I just wondering what with my own students with my own sons and daughters how much how much information is really coming at these guys on a daily basis with everything that comes that you social media eight hours a day on your phone probable of the blog to look up your own screen time, but it's not can be pretty and it's about 32 gigs a day. This is an iPhone 13-13+ it's got about five. I think it's 560 gigs of storage so I would feel this bad boy up in about 12 days while just with the information is coming at you so assessment and evaluation way more critical I think than any of us realize. Yes. So it's one thing to claim that everyone that you know about numbers worldview that begins in the classroom and you know it's a great statement but you know how do you deliver us you can theoretically said people might do it well in degrees. But how do you assess that were doing well so we what we do is we have we have connected blooms taxonomy verbs to skills that our students can do that are biblical worldview skills that we can assess these skills are syllabuses that we can assess it in the classroom and then we can take a broad look at all her classes see how people are doing and so what that looks like is we take them through three different three different steps in interpreting the world around us in the first step is trying to identify. That's one of the birds identifying traditional norms. So how did God make the world a function can we can we identify those can we explain those can we describe them to people so you know if I see if I see it is if I see design in a cell can I describe how design works in a cell and how how that displays God's orderliness like that but we live in a fallen world.

So the next thing we want to do is discuss be able to think about how the subject area that were looking at deals with the fallen corruption of this world so the world is doing that we want to evaluate strategies used to distort things in this world. So God created this way God created marriage rights and marriage is good, is a function that he created the world can't invent something new big campus store fallen world distort things and so they changed to try to change marriage to mean something different and so are we able to evaluate the thing that really messed up my my students when I taught a secular university in college was, I would play that who says they would give a statement. They feel very passionate about what you can say that that's that's not fair.

You know you you can't you can't say that people have to do what you say here in America because they live in Cambodia yourself like that right is not fair at all is says and silence right because what your source of authority exactly and it came down to their feeling something is on online that resonated with that but they realize very quickly my feelings and what you know resonates with me online is proof of anything and so being able to wait. How I know something is distorted. I need God's word so I need God's word for the creation see what racial norms you yeah yeah I need God's word to be able to evaluate so I can use it as a S a catalyst to see how the world has distorted his dysfunction in this world and the last one is redemptive response. How do I formulate a response to this the fallen corruption.

I found that formulation that's one of the higher blooms words it's up there with create and so your trying to design from Scripture you're trying to sign a response to the world using the principles of Scripture gives you give a real answer to this fallen world and how we might be able to. In view of God's redemption. How are we to act in view of God's redemption so it's not that were redeeming all all of the world but we are doing is being able to respond biblically in view of God's redemption. Knowing what needs to be bent back towards their needs to be left alone and in that redemptive response. There's there's speaking truth just for the sake of being good witness for the Lord and so you want to speak truth which is a benefit if you glorify God and and hopefully benefit some people that are willing to listen, but you also want to see people change as a result of it and see, gotta get yourself in there I got a in the mail just the other day. Yesterday the day before three or four paragraph Renton hand written letter because I mentioned recently that I had gone to see the movie Elvis and so they went online and found out how many swearwords there are in the movie Elvis about Elvis, Teresa Wright.

So then their whole point is why why in the world would you go to a movie like that. Okay fine, let's have a conversation but going back to this and the reason that I love movies is that it's it that's like a playground for what you're talking about. For me personally I walk into a movie and I can sit there and go when movies are working and when there's truth there. I know where that comes from like you guys don't understand Marvel guys Robert Downey Junior what you don't understand why that works but I know why it works because that reflects the reality that God is created. So there's that the person identify accretion, then I get brokenhearted by the fallen world aspect what Elvis did with life. The people that lied to the people that abuse to be lied to himself probable about the lifestyle he chose to live all these things and so then I get broken and then my redemptive responses. Okay, the world's going to see this movie the world's talking about this movie I want to show them things in the movie that reflect God's reality. I also want to show them the things that are marring God's reality that are heartbroken then and then can I point them to the gospel of Jesus Christ. As a result of talking about the movie Elvis and I can while in so that that to those three points at that's what I do when I watch movies, be it at home or go to big screen things functioning when I do that yes that's what I tell my students, when you get this this concept right you have these steps in your mind. This should ruin every movie recital exactly as you can't stop listening to what the words are saying try to get across and eventually you would enjoy things because of, but it also you know it might ruin your favorite song sure you actually listen to the world. You were my favorite movie, but you know you're right, that's all that's all you talk about like this cartoon Spider-Man and the spider right sure the relationship between that between between Morales and his dad. Yeah was a creation of norms, absolutely. That should be that dad should love their sons and give affection to their sons and being masculine men like that part out. Can we can we believe that double as a double problem right there masculine men and the guy that put their cartoon together is in thinking this will honor God is made in God's image and there's certain things in this world can't help but to address and say yes things function well this works and then they're not glorifying God when they display that reality. Mother got complete glory from it because he like yeah that's my answer I made to have reality lease you included it in the movie but yet that went over time, a movie set that aside, you can do this in economics. You can do a mock thing you can do it with philosophy. You can do it with any major at any time.

The science is nursing, medicine, engineering, whatever all those things are right playgrounds for this type of biblical worldview and so that's why we have to keep asking, are you sending your son or daughter to a Christian school that teaches, gives them a Christian education or is it like a light version of that you have a light version of it is not worth your money. Make sure that right now is great to see a buddy thanks so much for being here today.

You're welcome, God willing, I thought you guys real soon and like my dad always another program powered by the Truth Network

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